GIGABYTE Releases Statement on Allegedly Explosive Power Supplies, Will Offer Exchanges

Tsing

The FPS Review
Staff member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
6,499
Points
83
gigabyte-p850gm-power-supply-box-1024x576.jpg
Image: GIGABYTE



GIGABYTE recently drew controversy after hardware enthusiasts tested its GP-P850GM and GP-P750GM power supplies and alleged that they were faulty to an extent in which they could explode under certain use cases. The manufacturer has now released a statement to counter those allegations, insisting that its products are safe to use.



GIGABYTE explained that the GP-P850GM and GP-P750GM feature the industry-standard Over Power Protection (OPP) feature for shutting down units when power loads become excessive, but that they were stressed beyond normal limits due to the type of extended testing involved. This may have reduced the lifespan of the power supplies and their components.



That said, GIGABYTE has opted to adjust the OPP trigger-point range of its GP-P850GM and GP-P750GM products so they may shut down at lower loads. These are the new ranges...

Continue reading...


 

xGryfter

Sort-of-Regular
Joined
May 28, 2019
Messages
177
Points
28
**** exchanges, they should offer full refunds. I really hope this turns into a class action against Gigabyte and Newegg.
 

Niner51

Semi-regular
Joined
May 29, 2019
Messages
867
Points
63
I'm okay with them offering exchanges. At least they are owning up to their mistake, though mainly because of GamerNexus calling them out. Hopefully they don't make the exchange process harder than it should be.
 

Brian_B

FPS Enthusiast
Joined
May 28, 2019
Messages
4,645
Points
113
I mean they are right. Intentionally trying to blow up the power supply by running it out of spec and then making the surprised Pikachu face when it does blow up is disingenuous. That said, inside of spec they still aren't great units. https://www.thefpsreview.com/2021/04/12/gigabyte-p750gm-750w-power-supply-review/
Well, the overload protection is supposed to protect them when they are run out of spec and keep them from blowing up. Yes, they should shut down if they are overloaded (which should include run undervolted, as that would increase current that should trip the overload), but not "explode".
 

Paul_Johnson

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
558
Points
93
Well, the overload protection is supposed to protect them when they are run out of spec and keep them from blowing up. Yes, they should shut down if they are overloaded (which should include run undervolted, as that would increase current that should trip the overload), but not "explode".


Yes and no. They will do so if the slew rate is within a certain set of parameters per the ATX12v/EPS design guide paramters. Going from zero to the OPP in an "instant" by switching on a load is not within those parameters so you may get unexpected results like this.
 

Brian_B

FPS Enthusiast
Joined
May 28, 2019
Messages
4,645
Points
113
Yes and no. They will do so if the slew rate is within a certain set of parameters per the ATX12v/EPS design guide paramters. Going from zero to the OPP in an "instant" by switching on a load is not within those parameters so you may get unexpected results like this.
Hmm.

there is a slew rate.

but Overcurrent protection ~should~ be an instantaneous thing — if you had wire short to the chassis or something the PSU should protect for that, that is exactly the kind of thing is needs to be there for, and that is a instant step load way past OPP.
 

Paul_Johnson

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
558
Points
93
Hmm.

there is a slew rate.

but Overcurrent protection ~should~ be an instantaneous thing — if you had wire short to the chassis or something the PSU should protect for that, that is exactly the kind of thing is needs to be there for, and that is a instant step load way past OPP.

Not exactly. A short won't cause an instant spike in draw so they aren't configured that way. In fact, the design guide does not actually define a required OCP level or a response time.
 

Paul_Johnson

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
558
Points
93

I mean....it doesn't. We can measure how long the spike in draw takes and it is in the 100's of milliseconds or more or less depending on the mode but it is not "instant". A theoretical versus real world short are very different because of Ohm's law.
 

Brian_B

FPS Enthusiast
Joined
May 28, 2019
Messages
4,645
Points
113
I mean....it doesn't. We can measure how long the spike in draw takes and it is in the 100's of milliseconds or more or less depending on the mode but it is not "instant". A theoretical versus real world short are very different because of Ohm's law.
I've accidently arc welded too many wires to chassis to think otherwise, but not all that is inside a computer though. I just had to deal with one last night at 12,000V, in fact, and yes, it can be measured in milliseconds, but it's pretty darn fast. That's a bit different than 12V though, and if you can't get a direct short to be "instant" I can't think of anything that would be faster....

You test these things so I'll defer to your knowledge, but my experience and intuition still lead me to think otherwise.
 

Burticus

FPS Junkie
Joined
Aug 15, 2019
Messages
2,111
Points
113
On one hand, these things kinda suck anyway

On the other hand, I believe Paul, one should not pretend to be shocked that something they overloaded way past spec explodes
 

Zarathustra

Cloudless
Joined
Jun 19, 2019
Messages
2,095
Points
113

Brian_B

FPS Enthusiast
Joined
May 28, 2019
Messages
4,645
Points
113
It's completely legitimate to test to make sure if a safety feature is working properly.
That's exactly how I feel about it. If their circuitry isn't beefy enough to handle it - they should at least have a resettable circuit breaker or a fuse that keeps their electronics from blowing up, even if the slew rate is too aggressive or what not.
 

Brian_B

FPS Enthusiast
Joined
May 28, 2019
Messages
4,645
Points
113
Ok, show me the approved specification parameters and test conditions for that feature.

UL 1012 and IEC 60950 are a good ones to start with. Those include both parameters and testing conditions.
 

Zarathustra

Cloudless
Joined
Jun 19, 2019
Messages
2,095
Points
113
Ok, show me the approved specification parameters and test conditions for that feature.

I'm not familliar enough with industry standards, but it is appropriate to have overdraw protection and to have PSU's fail gracefully when they are overdrawn, not to pop in a display of thunder and lightning.

Whenever you design any product you have to consider that a no insignificant proportion of your customers are going to be idiots and do something they shouldn't. And even some of the ones wjho arent idiots may make mistakes. Overload safety is a no-brainer. It's why electrical circuits in our homes have breakers.
 

Brian_B

FPS Enthusiast
Joined
May 28, 2019
Messages
4,645
Points
113

Paul_Johnson

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
558
Points
93
I'm not familliar enough with industry standards,

Now, isn't that the crux of the problem. Lots of folks like you Brian, Gamer Nexus, etc. commenting on what should happen, how things are supposed to work, and what appropriate behavior is yet do not know anything about what the design requirements are. For instance Brian_B is going on about OPP and how it handles shorts. It does not. OPP is not even a required protection under the ATX12v or EPS design guide so it may be implemented however a manufacturer wishes. What does control shorts is the SCP which is defined in the design guides. I have have a nifty little button on the load tester to test the protection that drops the resistance to below 0.1 Ohm. OPP? Well yes a test for that too, but it has a slew rate defined by the load tester NOT a specification.

but it is appropriate to have overdraw protection and to have PSU's fail gracefully when they are overdrawn, not to pop in a display of thunder and lightning.

Not when there are design parameters required because it is impossible to design for every instance when there are no rules to play by.

Whenever you design any product you have to consider that a no insignificant proportion of your customers are going to be idiots and do something they shouldn't. And even some of the ones wjho arent idiots may make mistakes. Overload safety is a no-brainer. It's why electrical circuits in our homes have breakers.

Literally impossible to design out idiots. There is no way to design a unit for every failure or overload mode. That is why there is a design guide that establishes what unit has to do in order to be compliant. "Overload safety" is not a defined thing in this case. Again, it goes to people are commenting on what they don't know about. OCP does exist....and the spec calls for 240VA per rail with a defined slew rate. Now, I will let you figure out exactly how many power supplies are not spec compliant for OCP that you guys love and have no problem with.
 
Become a Patron!
Top