Lamborghini Wants to Produce Gas-Powered Vehicles beyond 2030

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Image: Lamborghini



Many of today’s major automakers have already pledged to make a comprehensive switch to EVs in the coming years, but Lamborghini doesn’t seem to be one of them.



Stephan Winkelmann, Lamborghini’s chief executive, made this clear in an interview with German newspaper Welt am Sonntag this week, confirming that the company is very interested in keeping vehicles with combustion engines alive beyond the next decade despite having made some steps toward electric with concept hybrid models such as the Terzo Millennio.



“After hybridisation, we will wait to see whether it will be possible to offer vehicles with an internal combustion engine beyond 2030,” Winkelmann said. “One possibility would be to keep combustion engine vehicles alive via synthetic fuels.”



Lamborghini isn’t expected to release its first fully electric vehicle until the end...

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Thank God. I'm still scared about GM's plans to get rid of all internal combustion engines by 2035 (I think that was the year they said). I do NOT want to buy an electric Camaro or Corvette. I know Dodge's Hellcat engine won't be around for much longer, but I hope there's a replacement ICE in the plans. I hope Ford keeps the Coyote and its variants around too (still not happy about them shelving the Voodoo engine).
 
And why shouldn't they? It's a niche product, it's not as if the few thousand lamorghinis on roads contribute anything meaningful to the pollution.

And this completely nonsensical timeline of going all electric by 2030 is just that, nonsense. We can't handle the increased consumption of electricity, especially with all the fud concerning nuclear power.
 
I see no issue with high end, low yield supercars with ICE engines still being made. Niche products. It's the every day cars and trucks clogging our highways that need to change (and big rigs especially). No reason to panic that million dollar supercars still be produced.
 
And why shouldn't they? It's a niche product, it's not as if the few thousand lamorghinis on roads contribute anything meaningful to the pollution.

And this completely nonsensical timeline of going all electric by 2030 is just that, nonsense. We can't handle the increased consumption of electricity, especially with all the fud concerning nuclear power.

There is an interesting (and kind of harsh back and forth posts too, so have grain of salt handy) thread on [H] about car electrification. A couple of the resident big brains have crunched the numbers and apparently the impacts to the grid shouldn't be nearly as bad as people are freaking out about.

I don't know exactly which page the math gets heavy, it's a fairly long thread

 
There is an interesting (and kind of harsh back and forth posts too, so have grain of salt handy) thread on [H] about car electrification. A couple of the resident big brains have crunched the numbers and apparently the impacts to the grid shouldn't be nearly as bad as people are freaking out about.

I don't know exactly which page the math gets heavy, it's a fairly long thread
Let's see. 2020 with lockdowns in full effect, and the US still managed to burn 123 billion gallons of petrol. Since most trucks use diesel even there we can safely say that this is mostly used by cars.

Let's convert that to liters because imperial makes even basic calculations overly complicated: 465 billion liters. For the sake of ease, let's say it was only 400 billion.

And since ice engines are notoriously inefficient let's say only 25% of that energy needs to be substituted with electricity. So we need to equivalent of 100 billion liters of fuel.

The energy density of regular gasoline is about 34MJ/liter So 34x100 billion MJ energy. But let's say not all cars are converted to electric only 10%. So that leaves us 34x10 billion MJ or 94444452 MWh let's round that up to 100 million MWh.

We know that the electricity production of the US was 4 billion MWh in the same year.

And so converting 10% of cars to electric would require 2.5% extra from the grid. Well, that might be doable by 2030.

But if we want all vehicles to be electric that makes it 25% which is not happening without major upgrades and overhauls.

Edit: Removed incorrect grid loss number.
 
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Grid losses are usually in the 8-10% range, but apart from that, I don't take issue with the high level look.

The problem with electric cars is two-fold.

As @MadMummy76 points out about mining - it's not a problem if a few people do it, but it's a huge problem if a lot of people do it. Looking at kWh is one way, and it's true, we'd need more power plants online. But there's also peak power draw. If everyone were able to stagger their charging, it wouldn't hit so bad. But it will go in cycles, just like our current energy use patterns do. I don't know what that pattern will look like - we can ~hope~ that most people would charge their vehicles at night at home, and that it would compliment what is currently a peak usage during the afternoon. Time of Use rates will shift pretty dramatically to reflect whatever the usage period ends up being, to try and encourage balancing the use by charging the highest rates when the production is strained the most. A ramp up to full electrification in less than 10 years is extremely aggressive -- we can get new power plants online inside of that time, but at least in the US, we can't build transmission that fast. It takes decades to run long-distance transmission (thank the overly-complicated system of permitting, environmental reviews, NIMBY, and eminent domain). A slow ramp would work out better, easier to adjust to, and changes would be much less severe, but we have arbitrarily set this deadline, thinking it will reverse climate change (it may help slow it down, but I think we are beyond reversing it no matter what we do). I don't think these changes will be as severe as the biggest of the naysayers think, but it will be bigger than "no big deal"

The second is that, for similar reasons, we want to shift our electric generation to renewable sources. They are not on-demand. They only work when the sun is shining or the wind is blowing or the tide is turning. That's semi-reliable in some areas, but not foolproof. So we are trying to overhaul an electric grid on the same time table as vehicle electrification. That takes storage of some form -- and most commonly, competing with the exact same storage that vehicles need for electrification. Now you have competing market forces for the same constrained resource, both on the same arbitrary time table. We already see very large and detrimental effects of shifting to renewables too fast in California (not wildfires, but rather in something called the Duck Curve) and, along with wildfire liability, is driving electricity prices through the roof out here in CA. And you still have all the grid problems mentioned above, but multiplied out because they will exacerbate each other.

I never really cared for Obama as president, but he did have a smart energy policy. We need to be "All of the Above" - and that goes with vehicles as well. Nothing wrong with electric vehicles, but I also think there's nothing wrong with Hybrids or with efficient ICE. And I love renewable power, but I wouldn't want to rely on just renewable in the middle of a blizzard or hurricane. We need to encourage energy diversity, invest in efficiency sources of all types, and encourage development and research of all types.
 
Grid losses are usually in the 8-10% range, but apart from that, I don't take issue with the high level look.
Yeah, my mistake, I used the wrong number, / was too much in a hurry to look at it closer. If we disregard loss it comes to 2.5 and 25%.
 
Yeah, my mistake, I used the wrong number, / was too much in a hurry to look at it closer. If we disregard loss it comes to 2.5 and 25%.
Yeah, it's still an unworkable number. 25% just can't happen in 10 years. Not at the pace the US performs infrastructure projects, and especially with current political climate and lack of bipartisanship. Even common sense projects get held up on agendas. Out here in California, half the population wants more dams, but not in their back yard, and not if it kills any animals, and forget that we still have a drought that has shut down the largest dam out here already. The utilities want more solar - mostly in the form of big scale gigawatt farms in the desert where they don't have infrastructure, but not on rooftops, even though it's now that law that all new homes have to have solar on their roof. And everyone wants more wind, but only if it's across the state where they don't have to see it or hear it. And everyone loves batteries, so long as they are free. No one wants to build more natural gas plants, even though California has a ton of it locally, it's cheap, and can burn on demand and is relatively clean -- we haven't found any energy storage better than natural chemical energy stored in fossil fuels. And let's shut down our only remaining nuclear plant, it only provides 10% of our energy while we are at it.

So many competing interests and none of them align.
 
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