So Much for the PlayStation 5 SSD Resulting in Reduced Game Sizes

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During an interview with Wired last year, lead system architect Mark Cerny hinted that the PlayStation 5’s SSD could allow for reduced game sizes. Its lightning-quick read speeds meant that developers would no longer have to duplicate certain data to evade the limitations of spinning rust, opening up the possibility of smaller installations.



“If you look at a game like Marvel’s Spider-Man, there are some pieces of data duplicated 400 times on the hard drive,” Cerny explained at the time.



Wired had warned that developers would simply fill that space up with something else instead of reducing footprints, and unfortunately, it looks like the publication was right. The install sizes of PlayStation 5’s biggest launch titles have been revealed on...
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Called it. Right after the GDC presentation I was saying that game sizes were about to explode again. Developers and artists are looking for any excuse to be lazy with assets. Just wait until Unreal Engine 5 games start coming out.
 
Ugh, so the 850gb SSD on PS5 is going to hold 7 or 8 games? That blows.

I wonder what the expansion options will be. I think I read somewhere it would have a NVME expansion slot... but are we just going to be sticking a m.2 stick in that and it pokes out the back? Something Sony branded? Or we're stuck using slow *** USB HDDs? I'm looking around the net, not a lot of details...
 
Burticus said:
Ugh, so the 850gb SSD on PS5 is going to hold 7 or 8 games? That blows.

I wonder what the expansion options will be. I think I read somewhere it would have a NVME expansion slot... but are we just going to be sticking a m.2 stick in that and it pokes out the back? Something Sony branded? Or we're stuck using slow *** USB HDDs? I'm looking around the net, not a lot of details...
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We have yet to be shown the rear I/O on the PS5, but if it is like previous consoles I am sure it will be a covered bay of some sort. Yes, it will accept M.2 size NVMe SSD, but they have to be certified by Sony that it supports the required speeds.
 
Burticus said:
Ugh, so the 850gb SSD on PS5 is going to hold 7 or 8 games? That blows.

I wonder what the expansion options will be. I think I read somewhere it would have a NVME expansion slot... but are we just going to be sticking a m.2 stick in that and it pokes out the back? Something Sony branded? Or we're stuck using slow *** USB HDDs? I'm looking around the net, not a lot of details...
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That was pretty much the case with the PS4 as well with its stock 500G HD, even the Pro only came stock with 1T. External drives had to be USB 3 to work.

Supposedly expansion is non-proprietary nVME (although they need to be certified, whatever that may mean), and USB 3 will be supported to work for storage but not playing games
 
Brian_B said:
That was pretty much the case with the PS4 as well with its stock 500G HD, even the Pro only came stock with 1T. External drives had to be USB 3 to work.

Supposedly expansion is non-proprietary nVME (although they need to be certified, whatever that may mean), and USB 3 will be supported to work for storage but not playing games
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I read somewhere that PS4 games on a USB HDD were ok, but PS5 games had to be on the SSD.

And yeah I feel ya, I upgraded my launch PS4 to a 2TB HDD less than 6 months after I got it. And it will still be there when I sell it, I'm not taking that thing out (and I also sold the 500gb hdd when I did the upgrade).

Then again, games were not 50-100gb like they are now.
 
Burticus said:
Then again, games were not 50-100gb like they are now.
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Well, PS4 is still current Gen as of today and yeah, some games are still hitting that 50G+ install size. Most are around 10G, but there are some whoppers
 
This is great news! Cerny said "it can allow developers" meaning they can choose to make smaller games that look similar to current graphics or they can choose to use the new tech to keep or even increase file sizes to have an insane number of texture variety and resolution.

And that's what we got. DS3 on PS4 was 17gb and Sekiro on Xb1x was like 12gb. Even on PC it was 25gb only. And they looked the way they did. Demon's Souls is 66gb and it shows, as it looks as gorgeous as it does its nearly quadruple the size of Sekiro/Dark Souls III.

Good decision by the developer to shoot for insane graphics fidelity and not care about storage size. This is what new gen should be about. If you want more games on a single storage solution cough up the ponies to buy a 2TB nvme stick that will fit into the rear port we haven't gotten info on yet or via a usb-c external enclosure. Etc etc.
 
This is very sneaky. Attracting in customers with low buy in costs but screwing them when they can't hold more than 5-6 games. If you want a next gen console make sure to get the physical model. It might be more at first but in the long run you'll save money.
 
If it allows for off loading to a slower usb hard drive the games not used often it shouldn't be a big deal.
If you can't do this, it wouldn't be too horrible if you have an unlimited fast internet connection.. but how things are going that is very far from a given and can certainly be a problem. Why would anyone think game sizes will get smaller?
 
Why would anyone assume that by simply putting something on or making it specifically to run on an ssd, that would reduce the size of said thing? It's just a solid state drive, which means it reads the information faster than a hard disk drive....do we suddenly not know what an ssd is?
 
Uvilla said:
If it allows for off loading to a slower usb hard drive the games not used often it shouldn't be a big deal.
If you can't do this, it wouldn't be too horrible if you have an unlimited fast internet connection.. but how things are going that is very far from a given and can certainly be a problem. Why would anyone think game sizes will get smaller?
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It was a big assumption to make because of the "developers no longer have to duplicate data" talking point and hardware decompression. Fewer files and enticing developers to compress assets again was why the assumption that game sizes would get smaller. If anyone knows asset artists and developers then you would know this was just empty talk. It's why I'm predicting doom and gloom with Unreal Engine 5.
 
A lot of speculation for sure. However, HDD expansion on the last 3 PlayStation systems has been a breeze, I wouldn’t expect them to break suit now. They have made it clear that virtually any M.2 NVME SSD will work, however they will have a certification list to identify ones that Sony has personally tested and certified
 
Correct. And I don’t think anyone who’s been paying attention in detail to this process from the beginning had any illusions to something otherwise. When we found out we were going to get an 825 GB SSD and games on current Jen like call of duty were taking over 150 GB for installs, it became pretty clear that we were still only going to be able to fit a small number of games on the PS5. While still disappointing, I don’t feel that that’s any form of a newsflash for anybody. Doesn’t make me happy at all but I’m still getting the system.
 
Even on the PS4 the games have to be installed to the hard drive. Fully. Even if you have it the disc version of the game, the only thing the disk is used for it’s for token exchange to verify you actually still on the game. But the entire game is installed off of the desk when you first set it up. From then on you have to insert the disk to verify you still on it, but the game is being loaded directly from the hard drive
 
This isn’t really sneaky. Many current 10 games top the 50 to 75 GB mark. That’s an insane amount of space. Now we are talking about a NexGen system with many times more assets in detail than current gen. So the hope that we were suddenly going to be able to install dozens of games on the PS5 is basically just wishful thinking. There’s absolutely no bait and switch there. They let us know upfront exactly how much storage base we were gonna be getting, and we have to either accept it, Or switch to a larger, slower storage solution and lose the benefits of the insanely fast proprietary SSD in the system. There has also been talk of Sonyi providing first party expansion options that are the same speed as the initial SSD in the system, but you can almost guarantee the buying a two or 3 TB version of those is going to end up costing you almost as much as another system
 
Tykan66 said:
Why would anyone assume that by simply putting something on or making it specifically to run on an ssd, that would reduce the size of said thing? It's just a solid state drive, which means it reads the information faster than a hard disk drive....do we suddenly not know what an ssd is?
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There was an article at some point that suggested the games "could" be made smaller. Something about on a HDD having to duplicate files a lot to cut down on seek/loading times but you wind up with the same data in a bunch of different places. In theory the SSD with it's instant access this wouldn't be necessary. But what was likely not considered was the devs are not overly concerned about going back and cleaning things up, whether intentionally or not (time constraints). So it's moot and the games will not get any smaller unless someone makes a concentrated effort.

Even if devs were able to reduce game size by eliminating redundant assets, you betcha someone else would see that as hole to fill up with other random data.

Or what Armenius said about 3 posts up
 
I can understand people’s concerns, however I think a lot of people are missing the actual point of Cerney’s statement. What he is essentially saying is because of the new design, it can now allow developers to be far more efficient with the way they develop and code their games. Meaning that overtime, as developers get more experienced with the hardware and realize they don’t have to replicate data hundreds of times as they did in the past for a faster loading, that they can actually significantly reduce the amount of storage that they take up with a game install through optimization. This is no way shape or form insinuates that game sizes were going to get smaller, just an offer as the opportunity, if developers decide to take advantage of it, for them to be able to make much smaller game installs. For example, if a developer were to make a game that would have been 50GB on the current gen because of resource duplication, they may be able to cut that down to say, 15GB, and still have more space for advanced textures and assets, and still make a game only 30GB. And then you’re looking at a win on both sides. The game install is still smaller than it would’ve been originally, and the developer is now including an increased number of assets to increase the graphical Fidelity on the title. But this is something that we will expect to see a year or two down the line when developers become more efficient at making games on that SSD. As their understanding of its use grows, and they become more proficient with the development process on this new hardware, they will be able to evolve their processes. Another way to look at it would be that buying a $2000 camera doesn’t make you a better photographer. You could hand and average citizen a Sony a Seven Seas to and let them go take pictures, and they may occasionally catch a better shot than they normally do. But in the hands of a professional photographer they can create magic. Better, more powerful tools or just that. Tools. It’s the skill of the user that will then be able to make use of that.
 
Armenius said:
It was a big assumption to make because of the "developers no longer have to duplicate data" talking point and hardware decompression. Fewer files and enticing developers to compress assets again was why the assumption that game sizes would get smaller. If anyone knows asset artists and developers then you would know this was just empty talk. It's why I'm predicting doom and gloom with Unreal Engine 5.
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Actually the exact opposite is true. HDDs greatly benefit from asset compression. It takes much less time to load compressed file then decompress it than load the uncompressed files from a HDD. Data duplication was really only a thing when games still ran directly from the Disc.
 
The drives will have to, at least, operate at the same speed as the internal one. Right now the picking are looking slim an very expensive. Here is a list of one of the prospects. The Samsung 980 Pro.

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=Samsung+980+pro
 
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