“Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker” Is Shaping Up to Be a Critical Disaster

[SmokeRngs]

It does read like fan fiction. That's been the whole problem. Jar Jar Abrams and crew at Lucasfilm in Kathleen Kennedy's all girl story group act like fans of the franchise, and maybe they are but that doesn't make them qualified to write for it. This last chapter sounds like it was written by the no talent hack who wrote Twilight. It's even got the crappy teen romance BS in it.

As for the Thrawn trilogy, it's good for the most part, but overrated. Jorus C'baoth wasn't that great a villain and Thrawn isn't really a villain either. The clone of Luke, referred to in the book as "Luuke Skywalker" actually comes from the same school of "not making any goddamn sense" that Episode 7's scene with Luke/Anakin's saber does. In the novel, the hand of Luke Skywalker and the saber was recovered by the Empire. The reason behind this is never made clear. The clone is commissioned by Jorus C'baoth and the reason isn't made entirely clear. It's only had a month of training if that, and shouldn't have posed a real threat to Luke, but for some reason it nearly bests him (plot armor) and of course, he has to be saved by Mara Jade. Yes, for some reason the man who confronted Darth Vader and won suddenly needs saving.

He can't deal with Jorus C'baoth either. Leia does that using Mara as a force meat suit. Mara Jade is a writer's pet in this book if I've ever seen one. In any case, the end chapters of the Last Command show a significant drop in quality compared to the previous books and frankly, its cringey at the end. It too reads like fan fiction. I'd have given it a pass if Luke did a ****ing thing in the climax of the book but he doesn't. He's basically furniture. He should have killed C'baoth and Mara should have killed the clone of Luke. That part at least had a point as her directive from Palpatine (that still lingered) was carried out and her hatred of Luke, died with that. I hated the end of that book for the same reason I hated Luke's depiction in the Last Jedi. He's rendered weak and ineffective for reasons that just don't make sense.

You have two climactic battles and Luke does basically **** all for both of them. Part of the reason why that doesn't work is because Leia, has little training and non of Luke's combat experience with the Force. Mara, although highly trained outside of the use of the Force, has about a tenth of his connection to the Force and certainly little experience with it. Basically, Luke is sidelined by a plot device (buzzing in his mind from the clone) and the victories from Mara Jade aren't really earned.

The difference is, there wasn't some BS woke agenda behind it. It's just bad writing. Some writer creates a character and obvious bias towards it shows. It's something that reeks of amateur hour and it shouldn't have happened. The end of the Last Command is inconsistent with the quality of the earlier books, and I don't know why. Typically, when you see this crap in fan fiction its because the usually male authors have some sort of sexual fixation on the female character they are writing about or created, and elevate them artificially when it isn't earned, nor necessary.

Of course, going the other way, while some writers rendered legacy characters ineffective or weak in the presence of newer characters, the reverse often happened as well. Luke was elevated to power levels in the EU that are staggering. I mean, he's no Rey, but the problem ended up being that he ended up being almost too powerful. It's the issue writers often have with Superman. While an average thug could get the drop on Batman or even get lucky enough to hurt him, Superman basically needs Darksied or other god like beings to fight. Anything short of that ends up being boring because we know the character is in zero danger. Worse yet, when they do kill off a character like that via something like Doomsday, its a problem because its obviously contrived as hell, thematically inconsistent and like Doomsday, done poorly.

The EU has some great stuff in it, but its a mixed bag for sure. There are some genuinely awful things in it that Disney was right to blow out of the airlock. It's the one decision Disney's made I largely agree with. Now, I think they should have sorted through it and pulled the best materials out of it to use for the new films. That would have worked, but they had to be very selective. A lot of that would have or should have come from Heir to the Empire, but it would have needed many changes to work on the big screen.

I agree that part of the ending of The Last Command was weak but the issue with Luke and the clone Luuke wasn't exactly contrived. Throughout the trilogy Luke was always able to sense something "off" about the clone troopers and pilots due to the way they were grown. Luke's issues with his own clone were consistent with the story and lore as written in the books. The "buzz" was a force resonance between two identical beings who "shouldn't" exist together. That was one of the reasons for the clone C'baoth's likely madness. At the time the clone was grown it was grown too fast and the Force resonance between the real C'baoth and the clone warped it.

Also, the clone Luuke was little more than an empty shell controlled by C'baoth. That's why the clone is able to do what it does without any training or template since it's an externsion of a mad Jedi clone who had the memories and abilities of the original Jorus C'baoth.

The reason for the hand and the lightsaber having been recovered from Cloud City was due to the Emperor. Thrawn stated the Emperor "collected" many things over the years and the hand and lightsaber were part of that collection. The mountain the final battle takes place in is a mixture of trophy house and storehouse for things which may eventually be useful to the Emperor.

I agree that Joruus C'baoth wasn't a great villain but he wasn't supposed to be. Thrawn was the villain and in my opinion he was the best villain in Star Wars short of Vader. Thrawn is the reason the trilogy is so loved. I think it all boils down to the fact that a single man, without any sort of Force powers, can bring the Republic to its knees and effectively fight the Jedi and he does it without being a super evil *******. He's ruthless and he'll do what it takes to get the job done but he isn't what amounts to a sadist like Vader, the Emperor, Tarkin and almost all other villains in Star Wars. He was a villain you could admire and respect while still wishing him to lose (although if things were even a bit different you'd probably be rooting for him.)

While the writing of the Thrawn trilogy is definitely rough compared to later Star Wars novels as well as Zahn's own writing it's still by far my favorite EU content. He introduced new and interesting characters with their own strengths and flaws. The history between Return of the Jedi and the beginning of Heir to the Empire was very well done and believable. The plot wasn't completely out in left field far fetched. The New Republic in that time wasn't some sort of panacea but realistic and the small core of the Empire still being around made for a great foil. Simply put, it was a proper logical and spiritual successor to the original trilogy despite the flaws it did have. Hell, there's a reason it's probably the books most wanted by fans to have been made into movies.

As for the Vong storyline, that's where I abandoned Star Wars novels. It was too stupid, too long and drawn out, too many stupid deaths of central characters, way too much change and reshaping of the galaxy and much more. I never even finished the series because it wasn't worth my time or interest and because of that anything which followed fell into the same category.

 

[Dan_D]

I agree that part of the ending of The Last Command was weak but the issue with Luke and the clone Luuke wasn't exactly contrived. Throughout the trilogy Luke was always able to sense something "off" about the clone troopers and pilots due to the way they were grown. Luke's issues with his own clone were consistent with the story and lore as written in the books. The "buzz" was a force resonance between two identical beings who "shouldn't" exist together. That was one of the reasons for the clone C'baoth's likely madness. At the time the clone was grown it was grown too fast and the Force resonance between the real C'baoth and the clone warped it.

This was consistent in the books, but it is inconsistent with what was established in the prequel films and the Clone Wars TV series. Yoda never had these issues around dozens or even hundreds of identical beings. So, at the time the novel released it was a valid excuse for his inability to deal with the clone, though I still think its somewhat contrived. The bigger issue for me is his ineptitude or inaction against Jorus himself. As I said, Mara should have handled the clone and Luke should have taken care of Jorus.

Also, the clone Luuke was little more than an empty shell controlled by C'baoth. That's why the clone is able to do what it does without any training or template since it's an externsion of a mad Jedi clone who had the memories and abilities of the original Jorus C'baoth.

I understand that. It's still a weak plot point in my opinion. If Jorus was truly controlling the clone, he should have been vulnerable while doing it, etc.

The reason for the hand and the lightsaber having been recovered from Cloud City was due to the Emperor. Thrawn stated the Emperor "collected" many things over the years and the hand and lightsaber were part of that collection. The mountain the final battle takes place in is a mixture of trophy house and storehouse for things which may eventually be useful to the Emperor.

I'm sorry, but I call BS on this one. While the Emperor is an established hoarder in the EU, the hand would likely still have been unrecoverable. Drop something into a gas giant and try and retrieve it. We actually know what happens after plunging a probe into the depths of Jupiter. I know Star Wars plays things somewhat loose with physics and science, but again, this goes far enough outside of what's believable that I consider it a low point in the story. Not only that, but the hand and saber in something the size of a gas giant would be nearly impossible to retrieve from the standpoint of it being a tiny object in a hostile environment.

I agree that Joruus C'baoth wasn't a great villain but he wasn't supposed to be. Thrawn was the villain and in my opinion he was the best villain in Star Wars short of Vader. Thrawn is the reason the trilogy is so loved. I think it all boils down to the fact that a single man, without any sort of Force powers, can bring the Republic to its knees and effectively fight the Jedi and he does it without being a super evil *******. He's ruthless and he'll do what it takes to get the job done but he isn't what amounts to a sadist like Vader, the Emperor, Tarkin and almost all other villains in Star Wars. He was a villain you could admire and respect while still wishing him to lose (although if things were even a bit different you'd probably be rooting for him.)

I can generally agree with all of this.

While the writing of the Thrawn trilogy is definitely rough compared to later Star Wars novels as well as Zahn's own writing it's still by far my favorite EU content. He introduced new and interesting characters with their own strengths and flaws. The history between Return of the Jedi and the beginning of Heir to the Empire was very well done and believable. The plot wasn't completely out in left field far fetched. The New Republic in that time wasn't some sort of panacea but realistic and the small core of the Empire still being around made for a great foil. Simply put, it was a proper logical and spiritual successor to the original trilogy despite the flaws it did have. Hell, there's a reason it's probably the books most wanted by fans to have been made into movies.

I completely agree. As I said, while good, I think some changes would be in order to adapt it to film. Some people might balk at that, but I think it would be better received overall if the weaknesses in the story could be fixed. Things like Luke's reaction to the clones would have to be taken out because we know this is no longer the case. There are also some Clone Wars references that as I recall, would need to be changed in some way as well. That's all part of making it consistent with the films we've seen before.

As for the Vong storyline, that's where I abandoned Star Wars novels. It was too stupid, too long and drawn out, too many stupid deaths of central characters, way too much change and reshaping of the galaxy and much more. I never even finished the series because it wasn't worth my time or interest and because of that anything which followed fell into the same category.

It was the same thing for me. On one hand, I appreciate the fact that they tried to do something new with the universe, but it felt too disconnected from it. Unfortunately, the challenge is to create new stories and new characters while retaining the feel of the universe that was initially established. This is something that's difficult to do and why so many shows and stories end up "jumping the shark" and going outside of what fans liked and found familiar. It's a fine line to walk in order to keep an IP from going stale while still keeping it fresh. Some IPs make this easier than others. Star Wars for example, doesn't have a lot of the same tropes as other science fiction shows. Unfortunately, that also limits what can be done with it. Star Trek on the other hand can get away with doing nearly anything.

Yet Jar Jar Abrams managed to **** that up too. Why? By not keeping true to the spirit of the material that came before it and not respecting the legacy of the property. Seems he never learns.

 

[Niner51]

I just seen the movie today. I can honestly say I liked it. Yeah some things seem a little far fetched, but it's a science fiction movie. A lot of action while keeping the jokes to a minimum just like the older movies. I went in with the mindset of just enjoy the movie and I did.

 

[Ranulfo]

Hah, I'd forgotten the Enterprise out of water bit from Into Darkness. I remembered the red planet and white mud caked people but I had to go look up the clip. I can't even remember what the big plot hole was that turned me off while watching it. Despite movie #2, I think JarJar and crew did better with LensFlare Trek than SW, ironic as its been publically stated that Abrams was more of a SW fan. At least I don't outright hate 2 of those Trek movies. DisneySoyWars is just horrible on so many fronts. I was bored halfway through Force Awakens.

Hopefully this finally discredits JJ. A man I've hated since the tv show Alias. The guy never thinks anything through. I took so much crud from Lost fans when I told them they would be disappointed by the end. I had no interest in Lost as a concept but people took that as just me hating it. No, I hated Abrams for ruining a decent idea with Alias that went no where for 5 seasons and Lost would be the same. Yet, all the press singing his praises.

 

[SmokeRngs]

This was consistent in the books, but it is inconsistent with what was established in the prequel films and the Clone Wars TV series. Yoda never had these issues around dozens or even hundreds of identical beings. So, at the time the novel released it was a valid excuse for his inability to deal with the clone, though I still think its somewhat contrived. The bigger issue for me is his ineptitude or inaction against Jorus himself. As I said, Mara should have handled the clone and Luke should have taken care of Jorus.

The clones during the Clone Wars were slow grown clones. The ones from the Thrawn trilogy were fast grown, in most cases in about 30 days. Thrawn used the ysalimiri to block off the Force specifically so the clones could be grown much faster without being mentally unstable. Growing them without the link to the Force setup a resonance once the clones left the null-Force bubble. That's what Luke was sensing with the clones when he was close enough. That resonance wasn't there with the slow grown clones from the Clone Wars because they adjusted to it over a long period of time.

This was explained in the Thrawn trilogy which came about long before Episodes 1-3 or any of the animated shows. It's not canon anymore but it was canon until the EU was thrown out wholesale. While it may seem somewhat contrived, you can say that about just about anything which didn't happen in the very first movie or the first trilogy. The "rules" were setup for the Thrawn trilogy and it was consistent throughout.