AMD’s Mysterious Ryzen 7000 Series Processor Was Running at 5.5 GHz without an Overclock

Grimlakin said:
Well if you consider the availability and cost of dedicated GPU's having an IGPU on every available CPU makes a lot of sense. If I want to make my wife or son a SFF system to do school work, surf the web and watch youtube with I can do that without having to invest in any kind of dedicated GPU. That's a win. And if it isn't really adding to the base cost... win win.
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Aren’t APUs available at a lower cost for this exact use case? You’re not going to use a 7900 / 7950 for school work, web, and YouTube.

I’ve been fairly good at selling off old video cards but I still have a GeForce 710, a R250X, and a 560 I could toss in a system if I really needed a GPU. In reality though, those cards will sit on the shelf because I’ll buy a current gen video card with any system I build. I actually intend on Getting a 4090 if possible this fall.
 
Burticus said:
The iGPU would actually be handy for office desktop systems, and for general configuration / troubleshooting if a normal GPU isn't available. BUT, why force it into the chip? Plenty of older AMD chipsets had graphics built onto the motherboard... yeah they were worthless for gaming, but fine for desktop/server duty. Why take up valuable CPU die space when you could throw it onto the motherboard chipset?
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as far as im concerned, we've actually returned to the old days like you want. zen4 has a northbridge with a pcie controller, ddr controller, and integrated graphics. they just decided to move the northbridge from the motherboard to the cpu substrate and renamed it the io die.
 
Endgame said:
I keep seeing people as trying to write off the iGPU as a good thing. All I see is more junk I’ll disable and never use. I’ve never used an integrated Intel gpu on any of my systems and always appreciated that AMD didn’t make me buy junk I don’t want. If I want an iGPU, I’ll go buy an APU. Otherwise, leave that crap off my system and use the same transistor budget for more cache
Click to expand...

I'm with you. I hate paying for things I'll never use. Also, added features just ad added opportunities for failure, so I prefer streamlined things that have just what I want.

That said, Motherboards are the biggest offender here. Every goddamn motherboard on the market is full of on board features I'll never use. I would love a motherboard with nothing outside of what is integrated into the chipset on board. heck, I don't even want most of what is on the chipset.

My perfect motherboard has no ethernet, no wifi, no sound, no SATA controller, only the USB ports that are built into the chipset. Instead the available PCIe lanes are used to maximize the numbers of PCIe and m.2 ports.

It's too bad PLX chips introduce latency. Otherwise I'd totally buy a board that pools the ~95GB/s bandwidth of Ryzen 7000's 24 Gen 5 lanes and provides eight 16x slots I can use as I see fit in a mix of newer and older generation slots.

All of that said, despite how much attention "gaming" gets these days, and for good reason as "gaming " parts have much higher margins than the few remaining non-"gaming" parts, the vast majority of CPU's and other parts sold are not going into gaming builds. Heck, they arent even going into custom builds at all. The king of volume is still highly integrated and custom OEM builds, and like 99% of these use on board graphics and integrated components.

None of my main builds in the modern era have had any integrated graphics, but that's just because of the models I've chosen:

- Intel Core i7-920
- Phenom X6 1090T
- Intel Core i7-3930k
- AMD Threadripper 3960x

Most of these have been so called "HEDT" models which generally don't have the integrated graphics.

HEDT seems to be a dying breed though :(
 
Uvilla said:
Unless I'm missed something mobos with video are something from the past past, like pre 2000.
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Wasn't that long ago, I had cheapo AM3/AM3+ boards that had (crappy) graphics on the motherboard. Don't ask me for model #'s, they were all low end Microcenter combos with Phenom 2's and FX chips (not APU chips like the A8 but I did experiment with those too for cheapo family builds). One of them was my Plex server up until about 4-5 years ago. Actually I think I still have an FX laying around somewhere but the board it is on doesn't have video (970 something)
 
Burticus said:
Wasn't that long ago, I had cheapo AM3/AM3+ boards that had (crappy) graphics on the motherboard. Don't ask me for model #'s, they were all low end Microcenter combos with Phenom 2's and FX chips (not APU chips like the A8 but I did experiment with those too for cheapo family builds). One of them was my Plex server up until about 4-5 years ago. Actually I think I still have an FX laying around somewhere but the board it is on doesn't have video (970 something)
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It's still a concept that is very much alive in the server space.

Supermicro and Tyan server motherboards will often have basic graphics on the actual motherboard (not in the CPU's)

They usually use something extremely basic just for text console and 2D desktop graphics output for initial setup and configuration. Something like a Matrox G200eW.
 
Supermicro typically uses the BMC for basic 2D video functionality. I imagine most other servers do the same. Although I dont know what the internal ip is for the video (designed by the BMC company? or IP purchased from someone else like Matrox?)
 
serpretetsky said:
Supermicro typically uses the BMC for basic 2D video functionality. I imagine most other servers do the same. Although I dont know what the internal ip is for the video (designed by the BMC company? or IP purchased from someone else like Matrox?)
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I can't tell you where it is located on the board, if it is in the BMC or not, but what I can tell you is that on my X9DRI-F (which granted is a few years old now, so current designs may be different) this is what the OS sees:

Code: 
~# lspci |grep VGA
0d:03.0 VGA compatible controller: Matrox Electronics Systems Ltd. MGA G200eW WPCM450 (rev 0a)

The detailed output looks like this:

Code: 
~# lspci -vvv -s 0d:03.0
0d:03.0 VGA compatible controller: Matrox Electronics Systems Ltd. MGA G200eW WPCM450 (rev 0a) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
    Subsystem: Super Micro Computer Inc MGA G200eW WPCM450
    Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx-
    Status: Cap+ 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR- INTx-
    Latency: 64 (4000ns min, 8000ns max), Cache Line Size: 64 bytes
    Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 16
    NUMA node: 0
    IOMMU group: 25
    Region 0: Memory at dd000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=16M]
    Region 1: Memory at df000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K]
    Region 2: Memory at de800000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=8M]
    Expansion ROM at 000c0000 [virtual] [disabled] [size=128K]
    Capabilities: [dc] Power Management version 1
        Flags: PMEClk- DSI+ D1- D2- AuxCurrent=0mA PME(D0-,D1-,D2-,D3hot-,D3cold-)
        Status: D0 NoSoftRst- PME-Enable- DSel=0 DScale=0 PME-
    Kernel driver in use: mgag200
    Kernel modules: matroxfb_base, mgag200

It's interesting. Some of what I would be looking for to figure things out here would be the LnkCtl sections, but those seem absent on this video chip, which is maybe suggesting that it is not using PCIe? This would make sense because the original Matrox G200 was AGP/PCI only. It was after all a late 90's GPU design.

No idea how it is integrated into the board. Probably some sort of integrated PCIe to Conventional PCI adapter chip.
 
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Zarathustra said:
I'm with you. I hate paying for things I'll never use. Also, added features just ad added opportunities for failure, so I prefer streamlined things that have just what I want.

That said, Motherboards are the biggest offender here. Every goddamn motherboard on the market is full of on board features I'll never use. I would love a motherboard with nothing outside of what is integrated into the chipset on board. heck, I don't even want most of what is on the chipset.

My perfect motherboard has no ethernet, no wifi, no sound, no SATA controller, only the USB ports that are built into the chipset. Instead the available PCIe lanes are used to maximize the numbers of PCIe and m.2 ports.

It's too bad PLX chips introduce latency. Otherwise I'd totally buy a board that pools the ~95GB/s bandwidth of Ryzen 7000's 24 Gen 5 lanes and provides eight 16x slots I can use as I see fit in a mix of newer and older generation slots.

All of that said, despite how much attention "gaming" gets these days, and for good reason as "gaming " parts have much higher margins than the few remaining non-"gaming" parts, the vast majority of CPU's and other parts sold are not going into gaming builds. Heck, they arent even going into custom builds at all. The king of volume is still highly integrated and custom OEM builds, and like 99% of these use on board graphics and integrated components.

None of my main builds in the modern era have had any integrated graphics, but that's just because of the models I've chosen:

- Intel Core i7-920
- Phenom X6 1090T
- Intel Core i7-3930k
- AMD Threadripper 3960x

Most of these have been so called "HEDT" models which generally don't have the integrated graphics.

HEDT seems to be a dying breed though :(
Click to expand...
I’m with you on that motherboard, except the USB part. Pretty sure I’ve used USB on every system I’ve had since USB came out.
 
Zarathustra said:
I can't tell you where it is located on the board, if it is in the BMC or not, but what I can tell you is that on my X9DRI-F (which granted is a few years old now, so current designs may be different) this is what the OS sees:

Code: 
~# lspci |grep VGA
0d:03.0 VGA compatible controller: Matrox Electronics Systems Ltd. MGA G200eW WPCM450 (rev 0a)
Click to expand...
You can't tell us, but you can certainly give us a hint! Google "WPCM450"
 
Zarathustra said:
They usually use something extremely basic just for text console and 2D desktop graphics output for initial setup and configuration. Something like a Matrox G200eW.
Click to expand...
No more Rage Pros?

serpretetsky said:
Supermicro typically uses the BMC for basic 2D video functionality. I imagine most other servers do the same. Although I dont know what the internal ip is for the video (designed by the BMC company? or IP purchased from someone else like Matrox?)
Click to expand...
That's the main thing these days. Something that provides VGA output alongside the supervisor functionality.

Endgame said:
I’m with you on that motherboard, except the USB part. Pretty sure I’ve used USB on every system I’ve had since USB came out.
Click to expand...
The CPUs have USB controllers on them. That's part and parcel now. The 'chipset' has more, which are likely of the same pedigree, and then there's the third-party ones that may be inferior (if you're using Intel) or potentially superior (if you're using AMD), depending on your needs and the drivers available at the time.

Further, there's USB4 and continued proliferation of Thunderbolt 4, which need those higher-bandwidth interconnects.
 
Endgame said:
I’m with you on that motherboard, except the USB part. Pretty sure I’ve used USB on every system I’ve had since USB came out.
Click to expand...
Well, I didn't suggest eliminating USB. Just including the USB ports that are integrated into the chipset. All modern chipsets have integrated USB. That usually gives you a handful of ports, enough for the typical mouse/keyboard/USB DAC and camera.
 
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