AMD Radeon RX 6600 XT’s Very Wrong Pricing Editorial

Stoly said:
Basing your entire article in MSRP is a MOO point. 😉 😉
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I understand what you are saying. However, it is the only measurement reviewers can rely on, street prices fluctuate, and change over time, and are unpredictable. MSRP is a yardstick that is predictable. And let's face it, it is the suggested price from AMD and NVIDIA for these GPUs, the yardstick they put in the sand, matters a lot. Reviewers have to rely on a predictable metric for comparison. Our reviews stay permanent for years to come on the website, so the only way to provide a measure of relevance is to rely on the MSRP for comparison. This is not something new, it's quite understood, and should be of no surprise.

The editorial isn't about if MSRP matters or not, that's an entirely different discussion.
 
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Brent_Justice said:
I understand what you are saying. However, it is the only measurement reviewers can rely on, street prices fluctuate, and change over time, and are unpredictable. MSRP is a yardstick that is predictable. And let's face it, it is the suggested price from AMD and NVIDIA for these GPUs, the yardstick they put in the sand, matters a lot. Reviewers have to rely on a predictable metric for comparison. Our reviews stay permanent for years to come on the website, so the only way to provide a measure of relevance is to rely on the MSRP for comparison. This is not something new, it's quite understood, and should be of no surprise. To further, the editorial isn't about if MSRP matters or not, that's an entirely different discussion.
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It mattered when products were on the shelf at those prices. Relying on MSRP when they aren’t real prices open you up to manipulation as mentioned early in the thread. You’d be celebrating a 249 msrp (or whatever arbitrary non sale number you want to pick) and it would be just as meaningless as trying to find anything NVidia at those prices. I’ll bet the current $299 for a 1050ti is above the original MSRP as well, but it appears to be the real price if you want to go out and buy one.
 
Brent_Justice said:
I understand what you are saying. However, it is the only measurement reviewers can rely on, street prices fluctuate, and change over time, and are unpredictable. MSRP is a yardstick that is predictable. And let's face it, it is the suggested price from AMD and NVIDIA for these GPUs, the yardstick they put in the sand, matters a lot. Reviewers have to rely on a predictable metric for comparison. Our reviews stay permanent for years to come on the website, so the only way to provide a measure of relevance is to rely on the MSRP for comparison. This is not something new, it's quite understood, and should be of no surprise.

The editorial isn't about if MSRP matters or not, that's an entirely different discussion.
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Had it been $299 it would still be a moo point (sorry can't stop). Just like it had been for every other card out today, it doesn't matter if the price is "right" like say the RTX3060Ti or complete bunkers like the RTX3090 you just cant get them at anywhere near MSRP if at all.

I think AMD set the price at $379 simply because they can. A higher MSRP means they are selling GPUs at a higher price to AIBs. They are just taking advantage of the current market.
 
Stoly said:
I think AMD set the price at $379 simply because they can.
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AMD used to be the underdog.

Now they want to be the topdog.

For next gen they are reportedly focusing more on 4K
1440 low & 1080 high are likely to be served by rebadged RDNA 2 cards !!!
 
Stoly said:
Had it been $299 it would still be a moo point (sorry can't stop). Just like it had been for every other card out today, it doesn't matter if the price is "right" like say the RTX3060Ti or complete bunkers like the RTX3090 you just cant get them at anywhere near MSRP if at all.

I think AMD set the price at $379 simply because they can. A higher MSRP means they are selling GPUs at a higher price to AIBs. They are just taking advantage of the current market.
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Higher MSRP may actually mean that gamers get some. I’ve read that the 6600XT doesn’t make sense for mining if the price is over $450 due to the length of time for payoff. In that case, the OC models probably aren’t going to get hoovered up by miners, and supply may be high enough that scalpers can’t justify it. So far all of the above seem plausible, given there are some on the shelf at microcenter.
 
Folks, if we show them that we will pay high prices for video cards, well beyond their MSRP, then that is exactly what you are going to get for the next generation. Prices are going to go up, cause they now know you’ll pay for it.
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No. prices do not go up because they know we will pay for it. Prices were set by the market before the shortage, and this hasn't changed. Maximize profit. Higher prices does not automatically mean more profit. The market has changed, prices have changed. Someone out there will pay 10k for a 6600 xt if they are given no other choice. Is AMD going to increase the price to 10k now?

You make it sound like before this current shortage AMD could have set their cards higher and increased their profit. No, instead everyone would just stop buying AMD and go to nvidia instead and AMD would lose. But since Nvidia and AMD are having the same problem this is not a current possibility.

The current value of cards reflects what consumers are willing to spend for them given current supply. It's nice that AMD is giving a more realistic MSRP. The MSRP on every other card is a joke right now. Hopefully AMD also gets more revenue from this too, instead of a large chunk of it going to middlemen, but I'm not clear on if this is the case or not.

Maybe things will re stabilize and actual prices will realign with unrealisticly low MSRPs, but until (if?) that happens I prefer an MSRP that tells me roughly what I should expect to buy the card for.

I dont know how you can do you reviews with cost in mind. Maybe have some sort of comparison system: If buyer can find 6600xt within 1.3 times the price of 3060 then it is a good deal? Can you do some sort of amazon automatic price checker script system for each review?
 
Stoly said:
I think AMD set the price at $379 simply because they can. A higher MSRP means they are selling GPUs at a higher price to AIBs. They are just taking advantage of the current market.
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No doubt. They also did it with Zen 3. Do you want them to continue to do that, however?
 
serpretetsky said:
I dont know how you can do you reviews with cost in mind. Maybe have some sort of comparison system: If buyer can find 6600xt within 1.3 times the price of 3060 then it is a good deal? Can you do some sort of amazon automatic price checker script system for each review?
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This is an editorial, not a review.

In our reviews, we have swayed away from discussing price too much since this epidemic of pricing.

What you propose is interesting, but ultimately arbitrary and without meaning. We can't just 'make up' a number to say it's good or bad.

MSRP is set by AMD and NVIDIA, and the metric which makes sense to compare with. One day, when pricing levels out to normal (if it does) and is back to MSRP, then these reviews today will still be relevant for people to make up their mind on what GPU fits them best. And when the 6600 XT is at MSRP, I will still say it's a bad value and priced too high.

And I guarantee you, AMD and NVIDIA are looking at the prices people are paying for video cards right now, and it's got them thinking, they are thinking mmm, if they will pay that much, maybe we should raise the MSRP even higher next go-around.
 
Brent_Justice said:
This is an editorial, not a review.

In our reviews, we have swayed away from discussing price too much since this epidemic of pricing.

What you propose is interesting, but ultimately arbitrary and without meaning. We can't just 'make up' a number to say it's good or bad.

MSRP is set by AMD and NVIDIA, and the metric which makes sense to compare with. One day, when pricing levels out to normal (if it does) and is back to MSRP, then these reviews today will still be relevant for people to make up their mind on what GPU fits them best. And when the 6600 XT is at MSRP, I will still say it's a bad value and priced too high.

And I guarantee you, AMD and NVIDIA are looking at the prices people are paying for video cards right now, and it's got them thinking, they are thinking mmm, if they will pay that much, maybe we should raise the MSRP even higher next go-around.
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Or, they are looking at tech reviews sites which derive the card value based on an imaginary declared MSRP number and saying “mmm, we can win mind share by setting the price we will never actually sell at.”
 
Brent_Justice said:
And I guarantee you, AMD and NVIDIA are looking at the prices people are paying for video cards right now, and it's got them thinking, they are thinking mmm, if they will pay that much, maybe we should raise the MSRP even higher next go-around.
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Yes, but this is not something that is new is what I mean.

There is no revelation here for Amd or Nvidia. If demand drops (people go back outside), or if supply increases (components become more available/cheaper), it does not make sense for AMD or NVidia to continue high prices. They will be losing profit.

AMD and NVIDIA sell at whatever they think maximizes their profit.

If AMD sells at a price that is too low that simply means they will run out of stock very quickly, all of the middlemen will buy them out, readjust the prices to what the market actually dictates, and AMD loses out on profit.

If AMD sells at a price that is too high they simply wont sell as much, and AMD loses out on profit.

People will pay what they think something is worth to them, regardless what someone else tells them to do. There is no single party that is to blame for anything here. If AMD readjusts the MSRP of 6600xt as the demand decreases or the supply increases, then that is ideal. MSRP should reflect what the price of the card actually with some amount of confidence. Right now it seems the MSRP is accurate (and maybe even still too low? not sure)
 
serpretetsky said:
I see. What about when giving awards to products, is MSRP used as part of the decision?
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MSRP will always play a part, as long as I've been reviewing computer hardware 20+ years, MSRP has always been a measuring stick

It does have meaning and is the suggested price from AMD, NVIDIA et al

It is not, however, the sole defining factor at all, it plays a part
 
Brent_Justice said:
MSRP will always play a part, as long as I've been reviewing computer hardware 20+ years, MSRP has always been a measuring stick

It does have meaning and is the suggested price from AMD, NVIDIA et al

It is not, however, the sole defining factor at all, it plays a part
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I agree.

In a "normal" economy, we saw that cards would often sell something less than MSRP, especially after they had been on the market for a bit, and was one way that AIBs could differentiate their SKUs, and that retailers could use to help drive sales depending on their willingness to cut into profit margins, their inventory levels, and the strength of their procurement contracts.

MSRP was the level playing stick that the manufacturer expected a baseline SKU to go for, and while AIBs would tend to track a bit higher, were a way to normalize pricing to various levels of technology
 
Brent_Justice said:
And I guarantee you, AMD and NVIDIA are looking at the prices people are paying for video cards right now, and it's got them thinking, they are thinking mmm, if they will pay that much, maybe we should raise the MSRP even higher next go-around.
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My point exactly
 
I find it a little bit odd that you complain about the price of a "budget" card, yet I don't recall a similar editorial on the RTX 3090, Titan, RX6900...
 
Stoly said:
I find it a little bit odd that you complain about the price of a "budget" card, yet I don't recall a similar editorial on the RTX 3090, Titan, RX6900...
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I've been complaining about price creep on cards for a long time now, especially the nVidia 2000 series.
 
Brent_Justice said:
MSRP will always play a part, as long as I've been reviewing computer hardware 20+ years, MSRP has always been a measuring stick

It does have meaning and is the suggested price from AMD, NVIDIA et al

It is not, however, the sole defining factor at all, it plays a part
Click to expand...
I see your points, and the difficulty that this places on you as a reviewer. But I do not see any simple solution here. Simply asking AMD to lower the MSRP may fix some things, but continues this trend of unrealistic "normal" MSRPs that have no correlation to actual price.

I agree that in the long term, if/when prices start coming back down again, then having these current "normal" MSRPs that align with those future prices and having your review be based on those makes sense. But for the last year and for the current (hopefully short term?) situation most of these "normal" MSRPs are meaningless to consumers.
 
serpretetsky said:
I see your points, and the difficulty that this places on you as a reviewer. But I do not see any simple solution here. Simply asking AMD to lower the MSRP may fix some things, but continues this trend of unrealistic "normal" MSRPs that have no correlation to actual price.

I agree that in the long term, if/when prices start coming back down again, then having these current "normal" MSRPs that align with those future prices and having your review be based on those makes sense. But for the last year and for the current (hopefully short term?) situation most of these "normal" MSRPs are meaningless to consumers.
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All the things you say here are correct and I agree with. The only thing AMD having set a lower MSRP for out of the gate would have done would be leading to positive brand recognition. It doesn't make any more cards, it doesn't affect the street price, it doesn't affect what scalpers are going to sell for, and it only tangentially affects what AIBs are going to charge.

My big point is that AMD missed a golden opportunity here, and Brent's point is that AMD not only missed an opportunity but went a step further and just shot themselves in the foot.

The MSRP may not affect anything on the street, but it still very much affects our perception of the product. And the message AMD just sent here is "Get out your wallet, this is about to get a lot more expensive"
 
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