Big Navi, on par with 2080Ti/RTX3070 or head to head with 3080?
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nEo717
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Would mostly agree... however there times (like URL below) that they talk about real released products with benchmarks and published information -- They took 11 games. test shading performance only, no DLSS, and no RTX -- and found that the RTX 3090 was on avg 33% faster than the RTX 2080 Ti. This means, for the most part, the card is acting like a 23.5 TFLOPs GPU -- They (in URL) published benchmarks.
NVIDIA RTX 30 Fine Wine: Investigating The Curious Case Of Missing Gaming Performance
NVIDIA's RTX 30 series should have twice the gaming performance over last generation but this is what is actually happening.
wccftech.com
Stoly
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According to the same article, there's the potential for huge performance gains, like we've already seen in rendering applications from Brent's review.Would mostly agree... however there times (like URL below) that they talk about real released products with benchmarks and published information -- They took 11 games. test shading performance only, no DLSS, and no RTX -- and found that the RTX 3090 was on avg 33% faster than the RTX 2080 Ti. This means, for the most part, the card is acting like a 23.5 TFLOPs GPU -- They (in URL) published benchmarks.
NVIDIA RTX 30 Fine Wine: Investigating The Curious Case Of Missing Gaming Performance
NVIDIA's RTX 30 series should have twice the gaming performance over last generation but this is what is actually happening.
Keep in mind that AMD has historically have better shader (compute) theoretical performance than nvidia, yet it never translated in gaming performance (even with RDNA), actually not even compute performance for that matter, only in a few scenarios AMD came on top.
Case in point, RX5700XT 11Tflops vs RTX2070 7.5tflops, by the same token you could argue that the 11tflop card was acting like a 7tflop gpu.
nEo717
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To assume case in point, we need to assume AMD's next gen Navi is no better (or worst than) the current gen Navi -- Also in some games 5700 XT holds it own reaching 2080 (not super) level of performance (of course can cherry pick either way) -- When it comes to 3000 series, its not assumption (data), it's actual benchmarks -- So sure, if AMD makes no improvements from gen to gen, its possible the 6900 XT lands between 3070 and 3080 -- However if they make a little effort (improvement), its entirely possible to exceed the 3080 with 6900 XT -- Release a 6950 XT HBM2, and its not hard to image a 6950 XT trading blows (or even exceeding) 3090.
My guess is still that AMD will have a top card that mixes it up with the 3080 -- also think they will announce in Oct. like we've heard, with Nov. shipping date allowing them to do their best to get cards into those buying on day 1, and will have worked out things well with AIB partners too. It's been many gen's of cards that I've lost my faith (paper launch, mid level performance cards, etc...) in AMD, however, Lisa Su won't have this be a repeat.
Auer
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Just leaving this here: https://www.pcworld.com/article/341...d-struggles-to-deliver-its-flagship-chip.html
AMD is no stranger to "Paper Launches". There's been more too. Lisa Su is no magician.
AMD is no stranger to "Paper Launches". There's been more too. Lisa Su is no magician.
nEo717
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We've seen the sales numbers now being its well past the launch -- AMD is killing it in sales, demand was strong, still is strong -- It was mostly 3900X that sold as much as AMD could supply at release, then again oddly enough retail (microcenter) had them.
We are crossing into fan boy stuff -- and for record, I'm one of those people (lol), a Titan RTX owner, and each before it -- It's been awhile (other than Volta and its price) since AMD got my attention. It's OK to disagree if you feel AMD will launch next gen Navi with little stock and not be competitive in the upper performance segments -- normally I would prolly agree with you, but, not this time is all.
There's the sales numbers for AMD:
Stoly
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Again, given the current rumored specs, Big Navi would match a RTX3700. IF AMD has another chip that can deliver 28Tflops with HBM2 then YES it should rival and maybe even beat a RTX3090
Armenius
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Not clicking on WCCF Tech, but I'm guessing they're including sub-4K resolutions. At 4K it averages 48% faster. Take out the outliers and it is 50%. Bell curve shows the majority of variances lie between 36% and 60% (+/- 1 Std Dev). Std. Dev. = 12.29%
| Average | Average | 67.5572 | 99.519 | 47.88% |
| Game | Outlet | RTX 2080 Ti | RTX 3090 | Variance |
| Anno 1800 | ComputerBase | 41.20 | 51.90 | 25.97% |
| Anno 1800 | cowcotland | 48.00 | 75.00 | 56.25% |
| Anno 1800 | TechPowerUp | 46.40 | 67.50 | 45.47% |
| Ashes of the Singularity | Think Computers | 126.20 | 130.00 | 3.01% |
| Assassin's Creed Odyssey | cowcotland | 47.00 | 71.00 | 51.06% |
| Assassin's Creed Odyssey | TechPowerUp | 47.00 | 71.40 | 51.91% |
| Battlefield V | Guru3D | 79.00 | 124.00 | 56.96% |
| Battlefield V | TechPowerUp | 87.70 | 128.00 | 45.95% |
| Borderlands 3 | ComputerBase | 48.30 | 74.70 | 54.66% |
| Borderlands 3 | Guru3D | 50.00 | 78.00 | 56.00% |
| Borderlands 3 | Hexus | 43.00 | 69.00 | 60.47% |
| Borderlands 3 | TechPowerUp | 49.00 | 83.10 | 69.59% |
| Borderlands 3 | Think Computers | 48.02 | 67.77 | 41.13% |
| Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2019 | ComputerBase | 67.20 | 97.10 | 44.49% |
| Civilization VI | Hexus | 98.00 | 119.00 | 21.43% |
| Civilization VI | TechPowerUp | 121.20 | 182.90 | 50.91% |
| Control | ComputerBase | 38.30 | 54.60 | 42.56% |
| Control | KitGuru | 38.00 | 59.00 | 55.26% |
| Control | TechPowerUp | 34.80 | 58.30 | 67.53% |
| Death Stranding | ComputerBase | 79.80 | 114.90 | 43.98% |
| Death Stranding | Guru3D | 81.00 | 123.00 | 51.85% |
| Death Stranding | KitGuru | 75.00 | 115.00 | 53.33% |
| Death Stranding | TechPowerUp | 75.80 | 114.20 | 50.66% |
| Death Stranding | Techspot | 83.00 | 113.00 | 36.14% |
| Detroit: Become Human | TechPowerUp | 64.40 | 107.30 | 66.61% |
| Devil May Cry 5 | TechPowerUp | 77.60 | 139.20 | 79.38% |
| Divinity: Original Sin II | TechPowerUp | 96.20 | 149.40 | 55.30% |
| DOOM Eternal | ComputerBase | 109.00 | 168.40 | 54.50% |
| DOOM Eternal | TechPowerUp | 116.70 | 180.80 | 54.93% |
| DOOM Eternal | TweakTown | 98.00 | 156.00 | 59.18% |
| F1 2020 | ComputerBase | 84.60 | 124.50 | 47.16% |
| F1 2020 | Guru3D | 94.00 | 143.00 | 52.13% |
| F1 2020 | TechPowerUp | 105.20 | 172.20 | 63.69% |
| Far Cry 5 | cowcotland | 72.00 | 108.00 | 50.00% |
| Far Cry 5 | TechPowerUp | 81.80 | 119.10 | 45.60% |
| Far Cry: New Dawn | Guru3D | 79.00 | 104.00 | 31.65% |
| Far Cry: New Dawn | Hexus | 77.00 | 96.00 | 24.68% |
| Far Cry: New Dawn | Hot Hardware | 77.00 | 92.00 | 19.48% |
| Far Cry: New Dawn | KitGuru | 84.00 | 116.00 | 38.10% |
| Far Cry: New Dawn | Think Computers | 79.00 | 108.00 | 36.71% |
| Far Cry: New Dawn | TweakTown | 81.00 | 90.00 | 11.11% |
| Forza Horizon 4 | Hexus | 75.00 | 109.00 | 45.33% |
| Gears 5 | cowcotland | 57.00 | 83.00 | 45.61% |
| Gears 5 | Guru3D | 61.00 | 84.00 | 37.70% |
| Gears 5 | Hexus | 60.00 | 86.00 | 43.33% |
| Gears 5 | KitGuru | 56.00 | 85.00 | 51.79% |
| Gears 5 | TechPowerUp | 62.80 | 99.40 | 58.28% |
| Gears Tactics | ComputerBase | 41.90 | 59.00 | 40.81% |
| Gears Tactics | Hot Hardware | 56.60 | 73.40 | 29.68% |
| Grand Theft Auto V | cowcotland | 68.00 | 99.00 | 45.59% |
| Grid 2019 | cowcotland | 84.00 | 117.00 | 39.29% |
| Hitman 2 | cowcotland | 63.00 | 101.00 | 60.32% |
| Hitman 2 | TechPowerUp | 62.00 | 94.90 | 53.06% |
| Horizon Zero Dawn | ComputerBase | 47.10 | 71.80 | 52.44% |
| Horizon Zero Dawn | Techspot | 51.00 | 79.00 | 54.90% |
| Metro Exodus | ComputerBase | 37.80 | 55.70 | 47.35% |
| Metro Exodus | Guru3D | 50.00 | 78.00 | 56.00% |
| Metro Exodus | Hot Hardware | 52.26 | 75.52 | 44.51% |
| Metro Exodus | KitGuru | 77.00 | 115.00 | 49.35% |
| Metro Exodus | TechPowerUp | 72.90 | 116.10 | 59.26% |
| Metro Exodus | Think Computers | 62.32 | 89.47 | 43.57% |
| Metro Exodus | TweakTown | 43.00 | 63.00 | 46.51% |
| Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 | Guru3D | 35.00 | 45.00 | 28.57% |
| Middle-earth: Shadow of War | KitGuru | 63.00 | 94.00 | 49.21% |
| Middle-earth: Shadow of War | TweakTown | 83.00 | 114.00 | 37.35% |
| Project CARS 3 | TechPowerUp | 59.90 | 84.70 | 41.40% |
| Red Dead Redemption 2 | ComputerBase | 43.30 | 61.20 | 41.34% |
| Red Dead Redemption 2 | cowcotland | 47.00 | 79.00 | 68.09% |
| Red Dead Redemption 2 | Hot Hardware | 53.42 | 75.84 | 41.97% |
| Red Dead Redemption 2 | KitGuru | 49.00 | 70.00 | 42.86% |
| Red Dead Redemption 2 | TechPowerUp | 49.70 | 78.50 | 57.95% |
| Red Dead Redemption 2 | TweakTown | 52.00 | 76.00 | 46.15% |
| Resident Evil 3 | ComputerBase | 77.90 | 115.90 | 48.78% |
| Resident Evil 3 | Guru3D | 76.00 | 116.00 | 52.63% |
| Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice | TechPowerUp | 80.50 | 119.40 | 48.32% |
| Shadow of the Tomb Raider | ComputerBase | 52.60 | 73.60 | 39.92% |
| Shadow of the Tomb Raider | cowcotland | 41.00 | 64.00 | 56.10% |
| Shadow of the Tomb Raider | Guru3D | 59.00 | 95.00 | 61.02% |
| Shadow of the Tomb Raider | Hexus | 63.00 | 94.00 | 49.21% |
| Shadow of the Tomb Raider | KitGuru | 57.00 | 88.00 | 54.39% |
| Shadow of the Tomb Raider | TechPowerUp | 68.60 | 109.10 | 59.04% |
| Shadow of the Tomb Raider | Think Computers | 78.00 | 106.00 | 35.90% |
| Shadow of the Tomb Raider | TweakTown | 77.00 | 112.00 | 45.45% |
| Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order | TechPowerUp | 56.10 | 91.60 | 63.28% |
| Strange Brigade | Guru3D | 90.00 | 154.00 | 71.11% |
| Strange Brigade | TechPowerUp | 98.50 | 160.00 | 62.44% |
| The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt | Guru3D | 78.00 | 102.00 | 30.77% |
| The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt | TechPowerUp | 82.20 | 130.90 | 59.25% |
| Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Breakpoint | ComputerBase | 32.90 | 49.80 | 51.37% |
| Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Breakpoint | KitGuru | 57.00 | 88.00 | 54.39% |
| Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Wildlands | cowcotland | 47.00 | 65.00 | 38.30% |
| Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Siege | Techspot | 135.00 | 201.00 | 48.89% |
| Tom Clancy's The Division 2 | ComputerBase | 49.20 | 74.60 | 51.63% |
| Tom Clancy's The Division 2 | cowcotland | 50.00 | 76.00 | 52.00% |
| Tom Clancy's The Division 2 | KitGuru | 55.00 | 88.00 | 60.00% |
| Total War Saga: Troy | KitGuru | 46.00 | 66.00 | 43.48% |
| Trackmania 2020 | ComputerBase | 67.90 | 93.40 | 37.56% |
| Wolcen: Lords of Mayhem | ComputerBase | 53.90 | 77.80 | 44.34% |
| Wolfenstein: Youngblood | Hot Hardware | 111.00 | 162.00 | 45.95% |
| Wolfenstein: Youngblood | Think Computers | 110.00 | 150.00 | 36.36% |
nEo717
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It's entirely possible I suppose that the next gen Navi will take a step (or two) backwards in advancements and be a bit of a failure sure... you asked a question of "Big Navi, on par with 2080Ti/RTX3070 or head to head with 3080?" -- clearly Stoly, you meant, I'm telling you its going to be a 3070 match, and there's no question to it... lol -- For me, the leaks should be taken yet with a grain of salt, and feel there's a solid chance we see AMD hit the 3080 performance level.
nEo717
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Purely testing games on shading performance only, no DLSS, and no RTX (more of their comments from the bench testing is below):
"We found that the RTX 3090 was on avg 33% faster than the RTX 2080 Ti. This means, for the most part, the card is acting like a 23.5 TFLOPs GPU. Performance is obviously taking a major hit as we move from rendering applications to games. There is a vast differential between the performance targets the RTX series should be hitting and the one its actually outputting."
"Here, however, we can only guess. Since there is a lot of fluctuation between various games, game engine scaling is obviously a factor and the drivers don't appear to be capable of fully taking advantage of the 10,000+ cores that the RTX 3090 possesses."
"We found that the RTX 3090 was on avg 33% faster than the RTX 2080 Ti. This means, for the most part, the card is acting like a 23.5 TFLOPs GPU. Performance is obviously taking a major hit as we move from rendering applications to games. There is a vast differential between the performance targets the RTX series should be hitting and the one its actually outputting."
"Here, however, we can only guess. Since there is a lot of fluctuation between various games, game engine scaling is obviously a factor and the drivers don't appear to be capable of fully taking advantage of the 10,000+ cores that the RTX 3090 possesses."
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Stoly
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[QUOTE="nEo717, post: 19455, member: 447]
It's entirely possible I suppose that the next gen Navi will take a step (or two) backwards in advancements and be a bit of a failure sure... you asked a question of "Big Navi, on par with 2080Ti/RTX3070 or head to head with 3080?" -- clearly Stoly, you meant, I'm telling you its going to be a 3070 match, and there's no question to it... lol -- For me, the leaks should be taken yet with a grain of salt, and feel there's a solid chance we see AMD hit the 3080 performance level.
[/QUOTE]
based on what? wishful thinking?
Once again, given the current specs it would be more in line with a 3070. I still take them with a grain of salt, but we are only a few weeks away from release, so I don't really spect big surprises. I mean a month ago ampere rumors were mostly on par with the final specs.
At least on paper VegaVII had the specs on its side to speculate that it could stand up against the RTX280Ti. We know how that went.
RDNA2 doesn't even look that good on paper.
I'll give you this though. For years Nv shader performance (Tflops) ended up being faster than AMD in spite of AMD being faster on paper. With RDNA vs Turing it became much closer. It seems to me that RDNA2 vs Ampere shader performance might even tipped the scale in AMDs favor. But I don't think it will be enough for BigNavi to fight the RTX3080.
And as much as I may sound as an nvidiot, rest assured that if the Big Navi ends up being faster, I'll be happy to eat my words and even vote with my wallet for BigNavi.
It's entirely possible I suppose that the next gen Navi will take a step (or two) backwards in advancements and be a bit of a failure sure... you asked a question of "Big Navi, on par with 2080Ti/RTX3070 or head to head with 3080?" -- clearly Stoly, you meant, I'm telling you its going to be a 3070 match, and there's no question to it... lol -- For me, the leaks should be taken yet with a grain of salt, and feel there's a solid chance we see AMD hit the 3080 performance level.
[/QUOTE]
based on what? wishful thinking?
Once again, given the current specs it would be more in line with a 3070. I still take them with a grain of salt, but we are only a few weeks away from release, so I don't really spect big surprises. I mean a month ago ampere rumors were mostly on par with the final specs.
At least on paper VegaVII had the specs on its side to speculate that it could stand up against the RTX280Ti. We know how that went.
RDNA2 doesn't even look that good on paper.
I'll give you this though. For years Nv shader performance (Tflops) ended up being faster than AMD in spite of AMD being faster on paper. With RDNA vs Turing it became much closer. It seems to me that RDNA2 vs Ampere shader performance might even tipped the scale in AMDs favor. But I don't think it will be enough for BigNavi to fight the RTX3080.
And as much as I may sound as an nvidiot, rest assured that if the Big Navi ends up being faster, I'll be happy to eat my words and even vote with my wallet for BigNavi.
nEo717
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Infinity Cache, RX 6000 series is rumored to feature that -- Is that even possible if the rumored (just 256-bit bus interface) bus sizes are correct? Makes me wonder if we won't end up seeing a HBM2 top end model with Infinity Cache perhaps, unless rumors are simply off on bus sizes and such...
Stoly
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Other than nothing?
its a trademark, not even a patent. So I wouldn't get high hopes.
But its supposed to be the the next big thing since sliced bread, its the secret sauce that could make Big Navi go head to head with the RTX3080.
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nEo717
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Not much has made it out to public --
AMD's Infinity Cache May Solve Big Navi's Rumored Mediocre Memory Bandwidth
Better and faster cache
LazyGamer
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This sounds like another round of 'that one feature' that AMD has that will make all the difference.Not much has made it out to public --
AMD's Infinity Cache May Solve Big Navi's Rumored Mediocre Memory Bandwidth
Better and faster cachewww.tomshardware.com
We've been here before...
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Indeed we have. NVIDIA had a name for its compression algorithm used for the 9800GX2's 256bit bus. I can't remember what it was called but it didn't work so well. The 9800GX2 (even in Quad-SLI) were inferior to the 8800GTX's in 3-Way or 4-Way SLI for that very reason. The GPU's were starved for memory bandwidth.
I used to run a 3-Way 8800GTX SLI setup. I was pissed when I picked up dual 9800GX2's on launch day and CoD:MW ran much worse as a result of my very expensive purchase. Unfortunately, I had sold off my 8800GTX's by that point and was more or less stuck with the 9800GX2's.
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Armenius
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6900XT about on par with 3090 in rasterization with SAM enabled, but falls 30-40% short in ray tracing.
www.techpowerup.com
Did Brent get one for review?
AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT Review - The Biggest Big Navi
AMD's Radeon RX 6900 XT offers convincing 4K gaming performance, yet stays below 300 W. Thanks to this impressive efficiency, the card is almost whisper-quiet, quieter than any RTX 3090 we've ever tested. In our review, we not only benchmark the RX 6900 XT on Intel, but also on Zen 3, with fast...
Did Brent get one for review?
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Let's just say its on the shopping list...
Armenius
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Expecting to have one around the same time that 3090 comes in?