NVIDIA Announces GeForce RTX 4090 ($1,599) and GeForce RTX 4080 16/12 GB ($1,199/$899) Graphics Cards: Up to 4X Faster, Powered by 3rd Gen RTX Arch...

Brian_B said:
Thinking about the price increase some more — will be interesting to see what AMD does with their pricing. I fully expect them to come in ~just under~ like they did last generation, and then both companies to adjust via discounts and giveaways based on sales and margin.

I’m hoping for race to the bottom
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Go go intel !!
 
Brent_Justice said:
This guy explained it well: R.E. DLSS 3 and Latency

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Personally, I don't think most enthusiasts here needs someone holding their hand to what all of this means from NVIDIA at the end of the day.

For many, the message is LOUD and clear. 😉
 
While I don't think AMD well meet, much less beat the RTX4090, I think the Radeon 7000 could spell big trouble for the RTX4080s If only because the performance gap between the 4080 and 4090 may be huge. There's a lot of room for the 7990 to land on and beat nvidia on the (hopefully) sub $1,000 market.
 
Stoly said:
While I don't think AMD well meet, much less beat the RTX4090, I think the Radeon 7000 could spell big trouble for the RTX4080s If only because the performance gap between the 4080 and 4090 may be huge. There's a lot of room for the 7990 to land on and beat nvidia on the (hopefully) sub $1,000 market.
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For raw performance yes I agree. But there are features I want that Nvidia gives for "free" that make a difference for me. For the first time in many forevers I'm considering a top tier card.. I don't know what's wrong with me lol.
 
Grimlakin said:
For raw performance yes I agree. But there are features I want that Nvidia gives for "free" that make a difference for me. For the first time in many forevers I'm considering a top tier card.. I don't know what's wrong with me lol.
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I tend to agree, but many people don't care about extra features and only go for raw performance.
 
Maybe the real message here will end up being:

“Yeah, the 4000 series is expensive. But it’s totally worth it. But hey, if you can’t afford these, we have all of these great 3000 series cards you can buy…”

If that’s the message, 4000 series cards won’t see wide availability (sold out everywhere and scalpers rejoice) and we won’t see any lower tier cards until after the 3K glut is gone.
 
Grimlakin said:
For raw performance yes I agree. But there are features I want that Nvidia gives for "free" that make a difference for me. For the first time in many forevers I'm considering a top tier card.. I don't know what's wrong with me lol.
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You have FOMO. Don’t worry - the grass is not greener. It’s all marketing fluff designed to make you feel like you are missing out. You are not.
 
Brian_B said:
Maybe the real message here will end up being:

“Yeah, the 4000 series is expensive. But it’s totally worth it. But hey, if you can’t afford these, we have all of these great 3000 series cards you can buy…”

If that’s the message, 4000 series cards won’t see wide availability (sold out everywhere and scalpers rejoice) and we won’t see any lower tier cards until after the 3K glut is gone.
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I mean, lower tier cards always compete with higher end cards of the previous generation. Nothing new there.

Once you start getting more than a generation apart, the power envelope for the same level of performance really starts to differ to the point where it can be significant, but why favor a - say - 4060 over a 3080 if they give you the same level of performance?

Just because something is newer doesn't mean it is better.
 
Brian_B said:
You have FOMO. Don’t worry - the grass is not greener. It’s all marketing fluff designed to make you feel like you are missing out. You are not.
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I partially agree. Ideally I want enough performance to run 4k with all the bells and whistles enabled, without having to resort to any kind of scaling/DLSS, and when I can, none of these DLSS features matter.

Until they do, when I can't hit that magic 60fps minimum framerate in some title, then I really wish I had them to hold me over until my next upgrade.

When it comes to RT, it is still mostly pointless. There is little to no difference between a modern well designed raster graphics game, and one with RT elements, even when viewing them side by side, but often the game developers develop for RT, and overlook the cases where RT is disabled, and then it looks ****ty.

Cyberpunk - for instance - doesn't really look better with RT on, but they in many cases dropped the ball with the brightness with it disabled. IN my case I was able to tinker with HDR settings until I got it to look right for me, but that is not always the case, so having RT capability that doesn't cripple performance is more and m ore going to become a need these days.

And I have to admit, I hate it. it's just another instance of Nvidia using their market power to try to force **** on the market that we don't want or need in order to push out the competition. It is really sleazy, but Nvidia is very good at being really sleazy. Maybe even better at it than Intel used to be.

Nvidia continues to manipulate the market like they have done for over a decade (no, not in the way JayZ suggests, which is totally above board, but with feature lock-ins and lock outs and bribing game devs to make their proprietary solutions standard, so titles look ****ty if you don't have Nvidia hardware) and I feel awful giving them my money, but usually in the end still break down and do it.

In the past it was HarWorks, GameWorks, G-Sync Lock-Ins/Lock-Outs, disabling PhysX support on secondary GPU's if the primary wasnt also Nvidia, etc. etc. Now now they are using RT and DLSS to manipulate the market instead. They are a ****ty company, and under ideal circumstances, users would vote them out with their wallets, but because they are so successful in their ****tiness, people feel like they don't have a choice, and the manipulation continues.

I really feel like Nvidia needs a Microsoft-style date with the DOJ, but that will probably never happen.
 
Zarathustra said:
I mean, lower tier cards always compete with higher end cards of the previous generation. Nothing new there.
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Yes but the difference being there are a ton of grey market cards out there while there is still new inventory sitting on the shelf. So why even release something that competes with yourself until you at least get the shelf cleared.

And until then - push a generation-specific tech and hype it to no end to push FOMO (DLSS 3 in this case) — then once your sales start to wane you can open it up to older cards - because you love your customer base so much and helps keep that vendor lock-in
 
Brian_B said:
Yes but the difference being there are a ton of grey market cards out there while there is still new inventory sitting on the shelf. So why even release something that competes with yourself until you at least get the shelf cleared.

And until then - push a generation-specific tech and hype it to no end to push FOMO (DLSS 3 in this case) — then once your sales start to wane you can open it up to older cards - because you love your customer base so much and helps keep that vendor lock-in
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As you may recall, same happened with the 20 series launch. Nvidia was sitting on a metric ****load of 10 series inventory after crypto briefly crashed in 2018.
 
Zarathustra said:
As you may recall, same happened with the 20 series launch. Nvidia was sitting on a metric ****load of 10 series inventory after crypto briefly crashed in 2018.
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Yup, and we saw a staggering price hike on the 2K series over Pascal, and a months long slow rollout of cards to the point it was a virtual paper launch.

It's happening again, and it's compounding on top of that price hike that the 2K series brought about.

I hope AMD has their **** together and is able to push back some on this. But I don't hold a lot of confidence in that - even if they do have a superior product, they have to share their production allotment with the CPU team and they will be significantly more supply constrained than nVidia. I think that's partially why the 6000 series hasn't done as well as it could have in terms of reclaiming market share.
 
Brian_B said:
Yup, and we saw a staggering price hike on the 2K series over Pascal, and a months long slow rollout of cards to the point it was a virtual paper launch.

It's happening again, and it's compounding on top of that price hike that the 2K series brought about.

I hope AMD has their **** together and is able to push back some on this. But I don't hold a lot of confidence in that - even if they do have a superior product, they have to share their production allotment with the CPU team and they will be significantly more supply constrained than nVidia. I think that's partially why the 6000 series hasn't done as well as it could have in terms of reclaiming market share.
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I'm hoping AMD can at least get some baseline RT performance in the next gen so that they don't turn into a slide show when you enable it, like my 6900xt does. That will go a long way to improve their prospects.
 
Zarathustra said:
I'm hoping AMD can at least get some baseline RT performance in the next gen so that they don't turn into a slide show when you enable it, like my 6900xt does. That will go a long way to improve their prospects.
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I agree with you. I don't like it, but it's facts.

nVidia does a very good job of marketing - like you said. I would say AMD is about where they need to be in terms of raw performance. But they are missing a lot of marketing bulletpoints - Raytracing performance being one of them. I would contend it doesn't really matter that much, at least not yet, but it's a marketing point, one that gets benchmarked, and as such it helps set the perception of value of a card: even if it doesn't have any compelling use cases (at least, yet).

AMD needs to catch up on a lot of these bullet points - it's the exact same thing Grimalkin mentions that he feels like he's missing out on: Raytracing performance, AI audio filtering, DLSS being vendor specific, the list goes on. I would contend that none of it really matters in day to day gaming, but maybe for a small audience it does - just not me.

When I built my computer, it was the exact wrong time, but I was long overdue. I was looking for a 6800XT, but there were none -- this was in the middle of the **** when nothing was really available. A member here happened to hit on a EVGA queue for a 3080 Hybrid AIO: it was at MSRP, so I didn't feel like I broke my moral code of not funding scalpers or encouraging retail markups, but it was still outside of the budget I had set. I bought it, not seeing an end in sight to the availability issue, and figuring if I can get as many years out of this as I did the 980GTX it replaced, it wouldn't be so bad. But I wanted a 6800, I believe in putting my money where my mouth is - I just couldn't get my hands on one at the time.

So I have an nVidia card, one capable of doing all those bells and whistles. I have exactly 1 game that I've played that supports DLSS and RT -The Ascent - and honestly, I can't tell the difference with it on or off. I don't use voice on the computer, I don't do video encoding, I suspect I would have been just as happy with a 6800 (or 6900, and those are available today for what I spent on this card) - but it was just a matter of getting what I could when I could get it. I mostly play a game released in 2012, my GPU sits at about 50-60% utilization most of the time with the game at 4K 120 FPS (the system before that, a 980 with a 4790 CPU, struggled to hit 60 - Rift is a poorly coded game).

I suppose I could look at selling it off, but again, it's probably the exact wrong time to do that (again) - and it's installed and running, so I'll live with it, at least until it can't handle whatever it is I happen to be playing at the time. But all that crap that nVidia markets as being so awesome - I use none of it. Raw performance is really the only thing I can use in a card.
 
Denpepe said:
I found this to be an interesting read https://www.pcgamer.com/nvidia-rtx-40-series-let-down/
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Yikes, from the article:
It's also worrying regarding what AMD has coming. At this point, Nvidia will know exactly what AMD's upcoming RDNA 3 graphics chips look like. OK, the SKUs and pricing may not be fully finalised. But Nvidia will know all the specs of the actual GPU dies themselves.

I think the writer is correct, and nvidia just gave themselves room to cut prices if needed with the 4080.
Its a smart strategy, gouge if can, cut if you need.
I wouldn't have guessed the 4080 was so cut down, thats a bit shameful. Then again it might do these crazy performance numbers so who knows.
 
Uvilla said:
tYikes, from the article:
It's also worrying regarding what AMD has coming. At this point, Nvidia will know exactly what AMD's upcoming RDNA 3 graphics chips look like. OK, the SKUs and pricing may not be fully finalised. But Nvidia will know all the specs of the actual GPU dies themselves.

I think the writer is correct, and nvidia just gave themselves room to cut prices if needed with the 4080.
Its a smart strategy, gouge if can, cut if you need.
I wouldn't have guessed the 4080 was so cut down, thats a bit shameful. Then again it might do these crazy performance numbers so who knows.
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This isn't the first generation that Nvidia has done this with. And I expect AMD to have similar price increases as well because hell... why undercut yourself if the performance is there.

Now to be honest if AMD comes out the gates swinging for the fences with all hands on deck and amazing performance on par or better than Nvidia... (we know that's a bit of a reach right now and I run an AMD card.) AND pricing in line with AMD's last generation.... then really Nvidia will have to do some price correction. Even though they've been sure to publish that prices will not be shifting.
 
Grimlakin said:
This isn't the first generation that Nvidia has done this with. And I expect AMD to have similar price increases as well because hell... why undercut yourself if the performance is there.

Now to be honest if AMD comes out the gates swinging for the fences with all hands on deck and amazing performance on par or better than Nvidia... (we know that's a bit of a reach right now and I run an AMD card.) AND pricing in line with AMD's last generation.... then really Nvidia will have to do some price correction. Even though they've been sure to publish that prices will not be shifting.
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Denpepe said:
I found this to be an interesting read https://www.pcgamer.com/nvidia-rtx-40-series-let-down/
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AMD & Nvidia would prefer to sell out the old prev gen stock before fully promoting new gen

That is why the 4080 is priced high & Navi 33 is delayed by 3 to 4 months
 
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