Ryzen 9 5950X - All Hail The King!

[LazyGamer]

selling the Asus A7N8X Deluxe

I was pretty happy with an nForce 3 board; not sure why I missed nForce 2, likely just outside of my upgrade cycle.

Having said that, I consider AMD the outright victor during the Athlon 64/X2 days from a performance standpoint.

Without a doubt. Funniest thing at the time was the pimping of 64bit x86, when there wasn't an actual desktop 64-bit operating system to be had! The main advance was the IMC and that's really when their performance started pulling away from Intel.

I did get my 64-bit Vista copy earlier than most, though, and despite RAM being hideously priced.

 

[Stoly]

I was pretty happy with an nForce 3 board; not sure why I missed nForce 2, likely just outside of my upgrade cycle.


Without a doubt. Funniest thing at the time was the pimping of 64bit x86, when there wasn't an actual desktop 64-bit operating system to be had! The main advance was the IMC and that's really when their performance started pulling away from Intel.

I did get my 64-bit Vista copy earlier than most, though, and despite RAM being hideously priced.

I jumped to xp-64 as soon as I got my first Athlon64. Support was rough but I eventually made things work even most games. Making custom installers for 16 bit installer games was fun. By the time I got windows 7 (skipped vista) the transition was smooth.

 

[LazyGamer]

I jumped to xp-64 as soon as I got my first Athlon64. Support was rough but I eventually made things work even most games. Making custom installers for 16 bit installer games was fun.

The whole being based on the Server 2003 kernel thing is what really made that annoying. That's not really a problem today between desktop and server releases for most stuff; the differences you find are usually artificial, like Microsoft not supporting consumer-grade wired NICs (wireless are fine!) in Windows Server, and AMD not supporting Windows Server with GPU drivers for their consumer line at all.

But since the fundamental architecture is exactly the same, and since Microsoft has done a ton of work to keep drivers from being so consequential to the OS in the first place, companies really have to go out of their way to prevent functionality.

XP 64, on the other hand, required one to use stuff supported by Server 2003, and wasn't a development target for a lot of consumer-oriented stuff like games. I applaud your courage for going down that route though .

By the time I got windows 7 (skipped vista) the transition was smooth.

What's funny is that 7 and Vista at the second service pack were essentially the same. Some features were gated to 7, but generally speaking the complaints about stability and performance were addressed. And I'm still kind of annoyed that Microsoft abandoned the idea of sidebars and gadgets.

7 existed largely in the same vein that 10 does today; Vista and 8 both earned the ire of consumers, so their successors were largely marketing-driven.

And as I'm typing on Fedora 33 with the default Gnome desktop environment, honestly Microsoft has done a pretty good job with the basic desktop experience, at least with 10 Pro.

 

[Stoly]

The whole being based on the Server 2003 kernel thing is what really made that annoying. That's not really a problem today between desktop and server releases for most stuff; the differences you find are usually artificial, like Microsoft not supporting consumer-grade wired NICs (wireless are fine!) in Windows Server, and AMD not supporting Windows Server with GPU drivers for their consumer line at all.

But since the fundamental architecture is exactly the same, and since Microsoft has done a ton of work to keep drivers from being so consequential to the OS in the first place, companies really have to go out of their way to prevent functionality.

XP 64, on the other hand, required one to use stuff supported by Server 2003, and wasn't a development target for a lot of consumer-oriented stuff like games. I applaud your courage for going down that route though .

What's funny is that 7 and Vista at the second service pack were essentially the same. Some features were gated to 7, but generally speaking the complaints about stability and performance were addressed. And I'm still kind of annoyed that Microsoft abandoned the idea of sidebars and gadgets.

7 existed largely in the same vein that 10 does today; Vista and 8 both earned the ire of consumers, so their successors were largely marketing-driven.

And as I'm typing on Fedora 33 with the default Gnome desktop environment, honestly Microsoft has done a pretty good job with the basic desktop experience, at least with 10 Pro.

I'm so thankful MS got rid of those good for nothing sidebars and gadgets.
They were useless and slowed powerful machines to a crawl
And the AERO theme too. It made many of my games crash. I recall disabling it and having the XP theme on pcs that were too slow on vista.

I kept XP64 until win7 RC1 came out, it was soo good, much faster and stable than Vista. IIRC pretty much all my customers switched from vista to 7 as soon as it came out. And many of them skipped 8/8.1. I actually liked 8.1 but didn't use it for long as windows 10 came out soon after.

 

[Brian_B]

I'm so thankful MS got rid of those good for nothing sidebars and gadgets.
They were useless and slowed powerful machines to a crawl
And the AERO theme too. It made many of my games crash. I recall disabling it and having the XP theme on pcs that were too slow on vista.

I may be the only one but I loved the Aero theme and thought the gadgets were useful. I still run some look-a likes today.
You are right about it sucking and crashing some games though - that was a MS problem.

 

[LazyGamer]

I may be the only one but I loved the Aero theme and thought the gadgets were useful. I still run some look-a likes today.

The theme is a matter of taste; Windows 10 set to dark isn't a poor imitation IMO, and I did like Aero too. The sidebar and gadgets could have been kept as optional; I get that they were not likely as useful for folks with a single monitor, but who does that today except when actually using a laptop on their lap?

I'm so thankful MS got rid of those good for nothing sidebars and gadgets.
They were useless and slowed powerful machines to a crawl
And the AERO theme too. It made many of my games crash.

Well, they were 'good' as a means to keep certain information always visible!
Stuff like weather, or CPU usage, or an inbox, among many other things.

I think if the performance issues were addressed -- and I'm agreeing that they were real -- whatever framework or API that they used would have seen a lot more attention. It didn't seem that hard to make gadgets for new or existing software as everyone was doing it.

Could easily just stick it on the side of a second monitor and let useful stuff hang out, and you didn't have to worry about window placement or stuff getting hidden.

 

[Endgame]

I picked up my 5950x the last week of December. Playing with tweaking it now that I have the plumbing and leak testing complete. PBO seems to have it covered clockspeed wise, but does anyone have tweaking / info guides for zen 3? Just use Ryzen Master and go?

what is a decent delta t for a 32t load? Clock speed is 4.55 ghz with Water temp at 25c while CPU package at a whopping 71c. That seems way too high - maybe bad block mount or bad paste application (first time using thermal grizzly)?

what is the recommended procedure for finding max IF speed? Best way to tighten ram timings after finding max IF speed? Anything else I should be looking at?

 

[Lopoetve]

All threads? That temp seems fine, although how long did it run? Water temp is low...

 

[LazyGamer]

CPU package at a whopping 71c. That seems way too high

Most are lucky to hit a 71c load temp. My 9900K hits that with half the cores and half the threads, with a 360mm AIO mounted with six fans.

 

[Endgame]

All threads? That temp seems fine, although how long did it run? Water temp is low...

It’s just about to hit 72 hours continuous. Water temp inched up to 26 degrees at one point, but it’s back down to 25 now.

 

[Lopoetve]

It’s just about to hit 72 hours continuous. Water temp inched up to 26 degrees at one point, but it’s back down to 25 now.

You have the rad hanging out a window? What’s ambient?

My custom loop hits 31 under heavy load with a 10700k at 82c. That’s with the gigabyte all core boost overclocked.

 

[Endgame]

You have the rad hanging out a window? What’s ambient?

My custom loop hits 31 under heavy load with a 10700k at 82c. That’s with the gigabyte all core boost overclocked.

Basement ambient is 68f / 20c. Loop, if I didn’t already say is 5950 w/ optimus foundation pure copper block, 420mm hw labs gts cross flow and 360mm (really more like 400) thermo chill 120.3, push / pull on both rads. Since I haven’t been able to get a 3080 yet, GPU is a GeForce 710... and I don’t think they make blocks for those, so it’s the 5950 in the loop right now

 

[Lopoetve]

Hmm. Might be all the extra rads, I'm just on a pair of 360s for mine. That temp is fine - just fine. Plow onward, intrepid stranger.

 

[Dan_D]

what is a decent delta t for a 32t load? Clock speed is 4.55 ghz with Water temp at 25c while CPU package at a whopping 71c. That seems way too high - maybe bad block mount or bad paste application (first time using thermal grizzly)?

It isn't. People panic when they see something over 60c, but in reality these CPU's don't throttle until 95c. They can handle far more than that without damage for short durations.

 

[Bloax]

As chips get more dense, it becomes more of a problem to get the heat out in time than it does handling the total heat load.
Which is why his water temperature is rather low, despite the ""high"" max-core-hotspot-temperature - the only reported core temperature on these processors.

With that being said, there's no problem with running these chips at 80 C - its main impact will be on how nice of a Frequency you can get versus the Voltage required to get there.
As an example then my 5800x does 4775 Mhz at 1.28v in x264 encoding.. Until it hits 82 C, then it can't do 4775 at 1.28v in such a workload and dies.

I don't know what sort of values you'd get away with on a custom loop for PBO2 ****ery, but the PPT limit is still relevant for forcing PBO to use a lower voltage for a given task.
As both voltage and frequency define power draw, but the negative curve offset determines what's an acceptable Frequency for a given voltage - ergo slamming into the power limit forces its hand in not maximizing purely for the Thermal Limit.
which i think is what i tried to convey in https://forums.thefpsreview.com/threads/vermeer-overclocking-i-guess-considerations.4324/#post-26575 ???

anyhow the tl;dr is to run manual frequency/voltage setups in the heaviest tasks you'll be running, then attempting to beat PBO on the head until it (almost) matches the best result you got
it should hopefully not crash in any other thing as long as you didn't go crazy with the max boost offset



There's also a whole host of things on FCLK, SOC/IOD/CCD voltages, but I haven't fully processed that information yet..

 

[Endgame]

It isn't. People panic when they see something over 60c, but in reality these CPU's don't throttle until 95c. They can handle far more than that without damage for short durations.

I certainly know the CPU can go higher - the question is, for custom loops in general, what are people seeing w/ a 5950 using a higher end paste like TG kryonaut or kingpin? Heck, I'd be interested to know what people are seeing with liquid metal as well - not that I would want to use it with a pure copper block, but for my next build I might switch to nickel to use liquid metal. Honestly, I almost need a few points of comparison to get a feeling if I got a good mount or not - would hate to leave, say, 5c on the table because I got a bad mount.

I've also just begun tweaking IF speed - hit 1866 without changing any voltages. 1900+ causes the host to hang, so I'm likely going to need to figure out what to tweak to try to push it higher. Once I've locked in IF speed, I'll start tightening ram timings, which I could also use a good guide for.

I've also read a bit about using the curve optimizer in the bios to adjust per core voltages, but I can't find that anywhere on my Asus Crosshair Hero viii bios. If anyone had tips or guides there, it would also be appreciated.

 

[Dan_D]

I certainly know the CPU can go higher - the question is, for custom loops in general, what are people seeing w/ a 5950 using a higher end paste like TG kryonaut or kingpin? Heck, I'd be interested to know what people are seeing with liquid metal as well - not that I would want to use it with a pure copper block, but for my next build I might switch to nickel to use liquid metal. Honestly, I almost need a few points of comparison to get a feeling if I got a good mount or not - would hate to leave, say, 5c on the table because I got a bad mount.

I've also just begun tweaking IF speed - hit 1866 without changing any voltages. 1900+ causes the host to hang, so I'm likely going to need to figure out what to tweak to try to push it higher. Once I've locked in IF speed, I'll start tightening ram timings, which I could also use a good guide for.

I've also read a bit about using the curve optimizer in the bios to adjust per core voltages, but I can't find that anywhere on my Asus Crosshair Hero viii bios. If anyone had tips or guides there, it would also be appreciated.

You aren't going to see a big difference between the cheapest thermal pastes and higher end ones like the Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut. 1-3c at most is the delta between them. As for the temps on a 5950X, I couldn't say. I can't get one for a price that doesn't involve the sodomizing of my wallet.

 

[Armenius]

You have the rad hanging out a window? What’s ambient?

My custom loop hits 31 under heavy load with a 10700k at 82c. That’s with the gigabyte all core boost overclocked.

Had the 9900K burning away happily around 90-95C with the liquid close to 40C at one point. Got a bigger radiator and dialed in the voltage to where it is around 75-80C on the CPU and 30C on the liquid under typical gaming loads now.

 

[Space_Ranger]

As for the temps on a 5950X, I couldn't say. I can't get one for a price that doesn't involve the sodomizing of my wallet.

Or the selling of vital organs, and/or first born...

 

[Dan_D]

Or the selling of vital organs, and/or first born...

I've seen them selling for prices that are as much or beyond that of an RTX 3080's Ebay pricing and a stones throw from an RTX 3090's actual MSRP. No thanks.