Tesla Aiming to Release a $25,000 Electric Car in 2023, Might Not Come with a Steering Wheel

What people forget in this conversation is that a modern internal combustion engine is an incredibly complex piece of machinery with a large quantity of moving parts with very tight tolerances and difficult manufacturing processes. So is a transmission.
By contrast an electric motor is dead simple, cheap and easy to manufacture.
Now you are just making excuses. Actually manufacturing large scale electric motors that run at 20-30.000rpm is not really that cheap. And they include powerful permanent magnets, that are you guessed made from rare earth raw materials. But this is besides the point anyway.

Even the cheapest tesla is what $40.000 now? So unless musk can bring the price of that down to zero, this is not happening. Even $25.000 is a tight budget for the sensors needed for reliable and versatile self driving, that is not the joke that is autopilot.



If years of continuous improvement and economies of scale could bring internal combustion engines and transmissions to where they are today, doing so for electric motor / battery combos should be simple by comparison.
Except electric motors has been around as long as internal combustion engines, the technology is pretty mature, there are no miracolus shortcuts to make them suddenly 10 times cheaper. Only in Musk fans heads.

Right now it is the battery that is driving most of the cost. I'm sure that will come down over time. 2023 just seems too soon.
Various sharlatans have been touting revolutionary new batteries for decades, yet nothing came of it, because physics cannot be cheated, only gullible people believe in miracles.
 
Right now it is the battery that is driving most of the cost. I'm sure that will come down over time. 2023 just seems too soon.
Nah, you won’t see prices appreciably lower.

By the time the energy storage portion starts to drop in price, other items, such as safety and amenities will go up in price to keep the net cost the same, or even higher.

The only thing that will bring down the cost of care ownership, in my opinion, will be something like ridesharing. Programs where you don’t own a car, you own a subscription than let’s you use a fleet car when you need to.
 
The only thing that will bring down the cost of care ownership, in my opinion, will be something like ridesharing. Programs where you don’t own a car, you own a subscription than let’s you use a fleet car when you need to.

That will go over like a lead balloon. At least in the U.S.
 
Correct price point, not sure about everything else.

I'm hoping the new VW and other small electrics are ok and not ungodly expensive.
 
Various sharlatans have been touting revolutionary new batteries for decades, yet nothing came of it, because physics cannot be cheated, only gullible people believe in miracles.
There are interesting things in better battery tech that are still possible and have been demonstrated in a lab. For example, batteries that age dramatically slower than existing batteries, or solid state batteries that charge dramatically faster (1/10th the time of current lithium ion) than existing tech. I don’t think advancements like that are miracles.
 
There are interesting things in better battery tech that are still possible and have been demonstrated in a lab. For example, batteries that age dramatically slower than existing batteries, or solid state batteries that charge dramatically faster (1/10th the time of current lithium ion) than existing tech. I don’t think advancements like that are miracles.

It's all down to the expectations people have.

The thing is, we see reports of these scientific papers of promising new technology and think "cool, can't wait to get my hands on that", but what people don't realize is how ridiculously long it takes to actually go from "science has shown its possible" to an actual developed product that is reliable, manufacturable etc. The science bit is usually the comparatively easy part. Developing a product is really expensive, takes time and is challenging.

As an example, I remember talking to a friend of mine when I was 13 in 1993 about this awesome new technology that is coming down the pike. It's going to be like RAM, but non-volatile, so it can actually store data without power. It is absolutely going to revolutionize storage and make it so much faster. It has this strange name though, "Flash RAM".

16 to 17 years later I was able to buy my first SSD.

Battery tech improvements are coming. You just have to be patient.

Science studies may prove something is possible, but most of these papers go nowhere, as the concept is something that could never work outside of the controlled settings in a lab. In other cases, the studies can't be replicated (and no one wants to fund or conduct replication studies anymore, because all the glory is in the first discovery)

Maybe 10% of published papers are actually something that is actionable as a product. Now you have to convince someone to actually spend the time and money to develop it. Not all of them will get picked up. Of those that do, a good chunk will never make it to market, either because they wind up being too expensive, or they are just not reliable enough in the real world, etc. etc. The projects get shut down, shelved and the project never launches. In some cases the tech may even still be useful, but now it is tied up in patents and red tape and can't be developed by someone else, at least not easily.

A few filter through to wind up being real products, 20 years and millions (or in some cases billions) of dollars of investment in development and manufacturing work later.

Part of this is the news media's fault. Thy report on science topics they don't understand, and make it seem like these things will be viable products right around the corner, when most never will be.
 
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I would LOVE to drive an electric car, but:

a.) If a car isn't driver-centric with enough gauges and dials around the driver position in a traditional instrument panel to make even the geekiest engineer blush, I don't want it. A simple user interface isn't necessarily better. That's why I don't own Apple products.

b.) I really don't care about self driving tech. I don't want it in my way, I don't want to pay for it, and I CERTAINLY don't want it used as an excuse to dumb down my driver cockpit experience.
Not to derail the thread, but check out this nonsense: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a37408150/audi-grandsphere-ev-concept-revealed
"Facing the driver and front passenger is a large, flat dashboard that's devoid of buttons and lacks the traditional touchscreen display. Instead, the car's infotainment is projected onto the dashboard, and a camera tracks the driver's eyes and flicks through menus and selections based on eye movement. Each of the car's four doors features physical buttons for the climate-control system, but those can also be adjusted based on hand gestures."

"Autonomous driving is the Grandsphere concept's biggest flex, though, and in autonomous mode, there's no steering wheel in sight. For instances when autonomous driving is not available—such as when exiting a highway into city traffic—a steering wheel and gauge cluster deploy from behind the flat dashboard so the driver can take control."

Just... what the actual f*ck. I hope this thing doesn't make it to production. How fast does that steering wheel deploy anyways?
 
Ah, I my dream car... Heheh, I don't like driving, and pretty much suck at it. Lucky I married to the opposite.
 
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