Volkswagen Teases EV That Costs Under $21,000

[Tsing]

There's already a decent number of affordable EVs on today's market, but Volkswagen is working on something that may beat them all on the value scale. As part of its world premiere for the ID. 2all, a new all-electric concept car that costs less than 25,000 euros (~26,522 USD) and features a range of up to 450 km (279 miles), Volkswagen confirmed that it is developing an electric car that can be purchased for less than 20,000 euros (~21,217 USD). The production version of the ID. 2all is one of ten new electric models that Volkswagen plans to launch by 2026, while this year alone will see the introduction of the new ID.3, the ID. Buzz with long wheelbase, and the ID.7. Tesla's cheapest EV, the Model 3, is listed for $42,990 on its official website.

See full article...

 

[Brian_B]

Remember when Tesla was going to have a sub-$30k vehicle?

Yeah. I guess when you tack on a crapload of subsidies you may or may not qualify for…

 

[Grimlakin]

This is.... interesting to say the least.

 

[Niner51]

It's a VW so a no for me.

 

[Zarathustra]

If this is Golf-sized it could be neat.

If it is smaller, it is not.

 

[Zarathustra]

Looks like it is ever so slightly smaller than a Golf, but not enormously so.

I could see buying something like this as a second car dedicated to commuting and grocery store runs.

That said, differences in car lenght matter more than you think, and it is about 9" shorter....

 

[Grimlakin]

Still a 220ish HP equivalent for less than 24k is kinda big.

 

[Zarathustra]

Still a 220ish HP equivalent for less than 24k is kinda big.

Yeah, if I just needed a cheap commuter car, I'd totally buy one of these as an extra.

it's worth noting though, that it won't enter production until 2025. Who knows what other more affordable options will be on the market by that time.

 

[Tempest]

I think they're pricing it to compete with Nvidia's next flagship video card.

 

[Uvilla]

They aint meeting that price. Guaranteed.

 

[MadMummy76]

When will electric cars become standard in the third world? 50 - 100 years? Heck not even just the 3rd world, in the former and current eastern bloc most people drive old cars. Over two thirds of new car sales is to companies. Only the cheapest budget cars have higher ratio private ownership as new.

Even if they do meet that price, which will translate into something like €30.000 with taxes and usual shenanigans, it will be unattainable by 99% of people here in Eastern Europe still. Electric cars are the toys of the 1%, who probably already own a gas guzzler and the EV is only a second or third vehicle for them.

So the idea that EVs are somehow good for the environment is beyond ridiculous, even if we don't consider the massive headache with lithium mining, the massive headache they will cause for the electric grid (because EV makers won't pay for grid upgrades), and the massive headache that will come when we need to start recycling EV batteries en masse.

 

[Brian_B]

We should just go back to horses. At least you can eat those when the apocalypse hits.

 

[Riccochet]

$22,000 .... sounds nice ..... buuuuuuut when they hit lots dealers will say "we're seeing such a high demand that we've tacked on a $10,000 market adjustment, and we're only ordering fully loaded models, so out the door non-negotiable price will be $43,000. Thank you, come again!"

 

[Grimlakin]

$22,000 .... sounds nice ..... buuuuuuut when they hit lots dealers will say "we're seeing such a high demand that we've tacked on a $10,000 market adjustment, and we're only ordering fully loaded models, so out the door non-negotiable price will be $43,000. Thank you, come again!"

If the market hasn't corrected you are 100% correct. Also it depends on the contracts any remaining dealerships have with the makers. I don't see VW dealers all over the place and I know technicians are paid based on expected job hours.... And I haven't seen my independent dealerships for VW's so I expect they are a bit more strict. Dealers may not be allowed to tack on huge market adjustments.

 

[Riccochet]

If the market hasn't corrected you are 100% correct. Also it depends on the contracts any remaining dealerships have with the makers. I don't see VW dealers all over the place and I know technicians are paid based on expected job hours.... And I haven't seen my independent dealerships for VW's so I expect they are a bit more strict. Dealers may not be allowed to tack on huge market adjustments.

The VW dealers around me were doing market adjusted pricing when we went looking at SUV's in 2021. So I don't think they were restricted by VAG. Whether they are still doing that I don't know, haven't been back since.

As for the techs, all dealer service techs are flat rate, as far as I know. GM, FCA, Ford, VW/Porsche/Audi, BMW, Volvo, all flat rate.

 

[Endgame]

When will electric cars become standard in the third world? 50 - 100 years? Heck not even just the 3rd world, in the former and current eastern bloc most people drive old cars. Over two thirds of new car sales is to companies. Only the cheapest budget cars have higher ratio private ownership as new.

Even if they do meet that price, which will translate into something like €30.000 with taxes and usual shenanigans, it will be unattainable by 99% of people here in Eastern Europe still. Electric cars are the toys of the 1%, who probably already own a gas guzzler and the EV is only a second or third vehicle for them.

So the idea that EVs are somehow good for the environment is beyond ridiculous, even if we don't consider the massive headache with lithium mining, the massive headache they will cause for the electric grid (because EV makers won't pay for grid upgrades), and the massive headache that will come when we need to start recycling EV batteries en masse.

Even with Battery production, the total lifetime emissions of EVs is lower than ICE vehicles.

Electric Vehicle Myths | US EPA

Facts and myths about electric vehicles.

www.epa.gov

As for Eastern Europe, I have colleagues in both the Czech Republic and Poland driving EV. I’m not sure where you’re speaking of, but I believe both those countries are Eastern European. To put numbers to it, it looks like between 5-10% of new cars registrations in those countries are EV:

New registrations of electric vehicles in Europe

www.eea.europa.eu

Norway is a rocking 90%!

As for the grid, micro grids (solar panels with energy storage) and inertia grids ( https://www.pv-magazine.com/2022/07...ervices-at-scale-in-world-first-in-australia/ ) are probably the solution as opposed to massive centralized plants.

The true large scale energy storage solution is likely gravity batteries: https://www.popularmechanics.com/sc...-turn-abandoned-mines-into-gravity-batteries/

 

[MadMummy76]

Even with Battery production, the total lifetime emissions of EVs is lower than ICE vehicles.

You missed my point entirely but ganz egal. I didn't say EVs produce more CO2. In fact I said even if we don't consider manufacturing and recycling.

As for Eastern Europe, I have colleagues in both the Czech Republic and Poland driving EV. I’m not sure where you’re speaking of, but I believe both those countries are Eastern European. To put numbers to it, it looks like between 5-10% of new cars registrations in those countries are EV:

That's still not addressing my point, did you even read my post or just knee-jerk reacting to the first line? It is pointless how much of new car registrations are EVs when it is the rich buying them as second or third vehicles, and not actually replacing 20-25 year old vehicles on the road.

If your colleagues in Poland or the Czech Republic are driving new EVs, I'm pretty sure they belong to the upper crust and not living off an average-ish salary there. I mean I make almost double the national average in Hungary and I can't even dream of buying a new car, let alone an EV.

Norway is a rocking 90%!

Norway is one of the richest european countries, not exactly eastern bloc.

As for the grid, micro grids (solar panels with energy storage) and inertia grids ( https://www.pv-magazine.com/2022/07...ervices-at-scale-in-world-first-in-australia/ ) are probably the solution as opposed to massive centralized plants.

Which requires even more batteries. What did that guy say with the freaky hair? You can't solve a problem with the same thing that caused the problem in the first place. Close enough, I guess.

The true large scale energy storage solution is likely gravity batteries: https://www.popularmechanics.com/sc...-turn-abandoned-mines-into-gravity-batteries/

The thing with gravity batteries is that they are not viable everywhere. And no matter how much batteries you put on the grid it will still need to be upgraded. I don't want my electricity bill to go up by 500% so I can subsidize rich people's EV craze. Either manufacturers of EVs or owners of EVs should be made to pay for the infrastructure upgrades.

I'm not against EVs on principle, but I worry that forcing mass EV adoption without putting in place the support structure first is reckless. And again EV owners will be bailed out, while the responsible ones will foot the bill, who didn't jump on the bandwagon. This is not my first such rodeo.

 

[Riccochet]

"gravity batteries" ..... I vaguely remember something ..... ahhh yes, you don't get more energy out than you put in.

gravity batteries .... LOL

 

[Endgame]

"gravity batteries" ..... I vaguely remember something ..... ahhh yes, you don't get more energy out than you put in.

gravity batteries .... LOL

Yes, they DO work like normal batteries in that regard.

The idea is that you use excess solar and wind to winch a weight. You know, during the day. Then during the night when the sun isn’t shining, you let the weight turn a generator. Bam, extra energy from the day available at night. Nice thing is, gravity is available everywhere on earth.

 

[Riccochet]

Yes, they DO work like normal batteries in that regard.

The idea is that you use excess solar and wind to winch a weight. You know, during the day. Then during the night when the sun isn’t shining, you let the weight turn a generator. Bam, extra energy from the day available at night. Nice thing is, gravity is available everywhere on earth.

That would be great, if there was actually excess solar and wind power generated. There isn't, and never will be. The real estate needed for both just isn't feasible on a large scale. Nuclear is the future. And you don't need any of this gimmicky "gravity battery" b.s.. Nuclear is safe, powerful, small foot print, the fuel CAN be re-used if we would just change our laws around recycling it.