AMD Is Working on a Solution for Super Sampling

Peter_Brosdahl

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AMD officially unveiled its latest generation of Radeon graphics cards yesterday. Amid all of the announcements, one question being asked is how well do AMD’s new GPUs perform at ray tracing. This is a pretty big elephant in the room, as NVIDIA introduced the technology with its RTX cards. By giving them dedicated RT cores combined with Tensor cores for DLSS, it enabled the primary GPU to offload a lot of the work needed for ray racing. Without these technologies, FPS can drop greatly in games.



Ray Accelerators



We did learn that AMD has implemented its own...

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Lol, no kidding.. I would have never guessed this!!

"I have a suspicious feeling we'll be hearing more about DirectML in the near future ;)"
https://forums.thefpsreview.com/threads/rx6000-preview.3612/#post-20775

"I hope AMD comes out with something in DirectML to compete with DLSS"
Same thread, a few posts down (both my posts)

Oh, maybe I would have guessed it. It's almost as if this was always going to happen it just wasn't finished for the release, wonder if we'll hear more about this in November and maybe even beta drivers early December?

Oh, and it's been worked on for some time now...
https://www.overclock3d.net/news/so...on_game-changer_that_nobody_s_talking_about/1

And 2 years ago it was even being discussed and tested...
https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-vii-excellent-result-directml/

I mean, I get that the the new cards just came out, but it's not as if we didn't have indications this would be coming... and since directml is implemented the xbox and is a directx feature, it makes sense that microsoft is also helping drive this. Honestly, my biggest surprise in this is that it took so long for it to actually come out, but I'm wondering if M$ was holding this for the x-box and AMD wasn't being allowed to use/release it early.
 
Lol, no kidding.. I would have never guessed this!!

"I have a suspicious feeling we'll be hearing more about DirectML in the near future ;)"
https://forums.thefpsreview.com/threads/rx6000-preview.3612/#post-20775

"I hope AMD comes out with something in DirectML to compete with DLSS"
Same thread, a few posts down (both my posts)

Oh, maybe I would have guessed it. It's almost as if this was always going to happen it just wasn't finished for the release, wonder if we'll hear more about this in November and maybe even beta drivers early December?

Oh, and it's been worked on for some time now...
https://www.overclock3d.net/news/so...on_game-changer_that_nobody_s_talking_about/1

And 2 years ago it was even being discussed and tested...
https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-vii-excellent-result-directml/

I mean, I get that the the new cards just came out, but it's not as if we didn't have indications this would be coming... and since directml is implemented the xbox and is a directx feature, it makes sense that microsoft is also helping drive this. Honestly, my biggest surprise in this is that it took so long for it to actually come out, but I'm wondering if M$ was holding this for the x-box and AMD wasn't being allowed to use/release it early.
Well we've seen the AMD Radeon train is a bit slow to get moving. I've got a feeling it might, just might, finally start rolling at a faster pace if they can cement themselves at the 3080 tier not lose momentum for the round after.
 
Doesn't sapphire trixx boost app do something similar to DLSS?
 
Doesn't sapphire trixx boost app do something similar to DLSS?
Nothing does something functionally similar to DLSS, and like VRR and RT, AMD is late to the game and seriously underinvested in the fundamental technology.

And that's not an attempt to 'hate' on AMD; that's literally just how it is, and it's not something that's going to change overnight.

For 'super-sampling', which is really understating what DLSS is, AMD needs to have access to profiles for games and to be able to leverage their existing hardware to apply those profiles. Nvidia used their own supercomputer to build profiles. Where will AMD get theirs? Is their current architecture even capable of employing the basic technology?

And the biggest question: how are they going to get support into games?

The list of DLSS games isn't that long, but, it's also infinitely longer than games supporting AMDs yet-to-be-released 'AI super-sampling' solution, and, game developers already know how to implement DLSS. With AMD, they'd be starting from square one.

Further, looking into how DLSS works, the super-sampling stage needs to be tightly integrated into game rendering pipelines, while also being subject to the same driver dodginess that AMDs graphics division is famous for. AMD is usually about two years or so behind in terms of GPU gaming performance, but unless they have had a supercomputer crunching out supersampling profiles for games for the last year, they're probably more like three years behind in this field.

Despite all the hubbub about AMD being competitive again in terms of raw raster performance, which I'm not at all knocking, they appear to have missed the boat in a number of other areas. And as insurmountable as it seemed for AMD to become competitive in the CPU arena again, it seems that AMD has advantages in that market that they don't have with their GPU technology, and they really will have to actually do the work to catch up across the board.


Now, for something more positive: in a sense, a lot of the work has been done for them, as Nvidia has demonstrated how to accomplish AI supersampling effectively, and AMD has partners in Microsoft and Sony that are likely keenly interested in supporting the infrastructure necessary to develop and employ such a technology. It's still not going to be an overnight thing and where DLSS is employed, AMD are likely to find their GPUs unattractive for years to come, but as that's nothing new to them in general, I wouldn't count them out in the long run.
 
I dunno that I'm all that up in arms about DLSS.

Does it help? Sure. BUT --- It's only a band aid because we don't have enough graphical power to drive these effects without it. It's better to not have to need it in the first place.

Now, I won't argue that AMD has so much more graphical horsepower that it could compete against nVidia without needing DLSS. But I'm also not convinced that DLSS is some magic bullet that just makes everything better with less capable hardware.

If every title out there supported DLSS without needing deep level integration on the part of the developer - maybe the "Must Have DLSS" crowd would have a good point. But it isn't there - it remains a very proprietary work around to not having enough muscle to power all the eye candy that nVidia is trying to sell you on.

I've heard Gen2 looks good, I've not seen it but I'll take folks at their word on that. But I don't buy that it's "must have" or that it puts AMD at a huge disadvantage, at least any more than having a weaker RT implementation does. DLSS is only as good as nVidia keeps paying developers to use it.
 
Nothing does something functionally similar to DLSS, and like VRR and RT, AMD is late to the game and seriously underinvested in the fundamental technology.

And that's not an attempt to 'hate' on AMD; that's literally just how it is, and it's not something that's going to change overnight.

For 'super-sampling', which is really understating what DLSS is, AMD needs to have access to profiles for games and to be able to leverage their existing hardware to apply those profiles. Nvidia used their own supercomputer to build profiles. Where will AMD get theirs? Is their current architecture even capable of employing the basic technology?

And the biggest question: how are they going to get support into games?

The list of DLSS games isn't that long, but, it's also infinitely longer than games supporting AMDs yet-to-be-released 'AI super-sampling' solution, and, game developers already know how to implement DLSS. With AMD, they'd be starting from square one.

Further, looking into how DLSS works, the super-sampling stage needs to be tightly integrated into game rendering pipelines, while also being subject to the same driver dodginess that AMDs graphics division is famous for. AMD is usually about two years or so behind in terms of GPU gaming performance, but unless they have had a supercomputer crunching out supersampling profiles for games for the last year, they're probably more like three years behind in this field.

Despite all the hubbub about AMD being competitive again in terms of raw raster performance, which I'm not at all knocking, they appear to have missed the boat in a number of other areas. And as insurmountable as it seemed for AMD to become competitive in the CPU arena again, it seems that AMD has advantages in that market that they don't have with their GPU technology, and they really will have to actually do the work to catch up across the board.


Now, for something more positive: in a sense, a lot of the work has been done for them, as Nvidia has demonstrated how to accomplish AI supersampling effectively, and AMD has partners in Microsoft and Sony that are likely keenly interested in supporting the infrastructure necessary to develop and employ such a technology. It's still not going to be an overnight thing and where DLSS is employed, AMD are likely to find their GPUs unattractive for years to come, but as that's nothing new to them in general, I wouldn't count them out in the long run.
I'm sure we'll hear more soon, they have a large partner in microsoft who has been helping work on this technology, so I don't think getting resources and building a databas of games will be that difficult for them. It'd be different if it was their own proprietary hardware, but it's not... It's an implementation using a known api/interface from Microsoft, who would love for this to work properly for their own reasons. I do agree, AMDs GPU department was on slow mode while they were.building up the CPU department to better compete. Now that they are getting more resources we are starting to see some of that showing up. Hopefully they have some decent drivers for launch and we get some of the "missing" features shortly, although I haven't been a huge fan of dlss... 2.0 is better, but the minimum games and specific training requirements (yeah, like in scenes with rain where it fell apart and had to be retrained) makes it a time consuming feature that only benefits you if the game can't run fast enough natively. So while the results can be better than just a normal upscale, the normal upscale works with like.. 99.9% of existing games vs like 0.01%. not something that is going to sway me to much.
 
Amd has surprised us all by swinging for the fences with the new cards. Lets see hownreviews stack up.
 
although I haven't been a huge fan of dlss... 2.0 is better, but the minimum games and specific training requirements (yeah, like in scenes with rain where it fell apart and had to be retrained) makes it a time consuming feature that only benefits you if the game can't run fast enough natively. So while the results can be better than just a normal upscale, the normal upscale works with like.. 99.9% of existing games vs like 0.01%. not something that is going to sway me to much.
DLSS essentially being a 'high-end' feature as it stands to me seems like a bit of a development phase. Implementation has gotten much easier, and the technology IMO has plenty of benefits up and down the stack, from making RT workable at higher settings like we have now, to even say optimizing for power usage in laptops -- or mobile consoles, like the Switch, for example, in the future.
 
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