AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D CPU Review

Continuing the topic - I also have data that allows me to conclude that 4K game testing is a waste of time for a CPU review.

If you go back, and look at all my reviews where I have done this, 4K is always, always, always, the same performance on every CPU. From that data, I would conclude that all the CPUs perform similarly, which is silly of course, we know better. And we know better, cause we can look at the 1080p data and see which CPUs are better for gaming.

From this data, at 4K, the 7800X3D looks as fast as the 7600X at 4K - https://www.thefpsreview.com/2024/0...-review-8-core-king-at-359/6/#ftoc-heading-21 Is that true? Of course not.

Eventually, you realize, it's a waste of time to include 4K gaming results. I would rather spend the saved time, including more games into the review, that is more useful, always always always, a larger sample size of games is better.
 
Aaand sold out :p

A German retailer has it listed for 529€ but the only shop in Belgium I found it at has it at 599€
 
Because you are GPU-bound at the higher resolutions.
I understand this and that is why I mentioned your comments and video references that I have watched a while ago on the topic. Just about everyone in the hobby should know the higher the resolution the more GPU bound your system gets.
 
I understand this and that is why I mentioned your comments and video references that I have watched a while ago on the topic. Just about everyone in the hobby should know the higher the resolution the more GPU bound your system gets.
Reading along, there are two different questions worth answering:
  • How much faster is it? (this review)
  • Is it worth it? (far harder, larger scope)
The second one is where you'd dive into 'usecases' rather than 'relative comparisons', and might be approached by saying things like, 'is it worth upgrading from X to the new thing?', generally trying to answer the question 'when is it worth it' as broadly as possible.

Being GPU-bound is only part of it. Very generally, you want to be GPU bound all the time, which is why you shouldn't skimp on the CPU, and since GPU upgrades are usually more likely between system rebuilds, not skimping on the CPU means that successive GPUs will be more potent on arrival too.
 
Yep, I agree. With the exception of going from 3700X to 5800X3D, I've typically held on to a CPU for around 5-10 years, probably a bit too long but a CPU has always managed to allow me the options to upgrade through 2-3 gens of GPUs in between.

However, I will say that I'm seeing more games hammer the 2-year old 5800X3D, even at 4K now. From past experience with the 2600K (oc'd to 4.2 GHz) and 4930K (oc'd to 4.3 GHz), and some fairly fast mem & drives, is that when CPU usage maintained 50-70% while gaming the GPU was being held back, again at 4K, and when I did upgrade from the 4930K to the 3700X I gained 5-10 FPS, not to mention things got a lot smoother and once again around the same going to the 5800X3D. It was actually Brent's reviews for both that convinced me and happy I did.

I do believe there are many more details to keep track of these days than before. Most of what I play has ray tracing, and when possible DLAA, and if not then DLSS Quality. Lots of NPCs, shadows, reflections, and other things that both the CPU and GPU have to keep track of and lets not forget frame times. Regardless of perf hit vs actual improvement I usually keep things at ultra w/ post crap turned off and my desktop displays are either 120Hz or 144Hz 4K, and GPUs (both overclocked to just under 3 GHz, 24,000 MHz) and are pushing their processors to their limits in some games. The thing I find interesting and nice, is that more games are finally beginning to take advantage of more cores/threads, and why I'm really beginning to think about moving up to the 9900/9950 X3D parts. Long time coming.
 
Yep, I agree. With the exception of going from 3700X to 5800X3D, I've typically held on to a CPU for around 5-10 years, probably a bit too long but a CPU has always managed to allow me the options to upgrade through 2-3 gens of GPUs in between.

However, I will say that I'm seeing more games hammer the 2-year old 5800X3D, even at 4K now. From past experience with the 2600K (oc'd to 4.2 GHz) and 4930K (oc'd to 4.3 GHz), and some fairly fast mem & drives, is that when CPU usage maintained 50-70% while gaming the GPU was being held back, again at 4K, and when I did upgrade from the 4930K to the 3700X I gained 5-10 FPS, not to mention things got a lot smoother and once again around the same going to the 5800X3D. It was actually Brent's reviews for both that convinced me and happy I did.

I do believe there are many more details to keep track of these days than before. Most of what I play has ray tracing, and when possible DLAA, and if not then DLSS Quality. Lots of NPCs, shadows, reflections, and other things that both the CPU and GPU have to keep track of and lets not forget frame times. Regardless of perf hit vs actual improvement I usually keep things at ultra w/ post crap turned off and my desktop displays are either 120Hz or 144Hz 4K, and GPUs (both overclocked to just under 3 GHz, 24,000 MHz) and are pushing their processors to their limits in some games. The thing I find interesting and nice, is that more games are finally beginning to take advantage of more cores/threads, and why I'm really beginning to think about moving up to the 9900/9950 X3D parts. Long time coming.

I agree with this. Going from a 3700X to a 5700X3D I saw a nice bump in frames and higher lows while gaming at 2560x1440, everything else on the system remained the same. I tend to keep quality high, except for MP shooters (PUBG, COD). I never felt CPU bound, but something is clearly helping.
 
From the intro:

"...but these sort of commenters seem unaware that one person's 4K is not another person's 4K. For example, if you require a minimum of 60 FPS like some single-player gaming, for the most part you need not about CPU performance but if you game at 4K and do require 144 FPS you almost certainly will want the best CPU you can afford. In either case you can work out the true capability at a resolution such as 1080p where you simply can't at 4K. Also in terms of real world performance most gamers who game at 4K don't do so at the native resolution rather they enable FSR, DLSS, or XESS using either the performance, balanced, or quality preset."


I absolutely know that I'm in the single-digit percentage of those PC gamers pushing a 4090 to its max on a regular basis for native 4K but when it can't hold 90-120 FPS (LG C2) or 100-135 FPS (TCL M85), I will use DLSS Quality to get there. I don't believe anyone disagrees that 1080P will provide the ultimate CPU bottleneck and it is basic math to reason the GPU bottleneck that happens at 4K. However, since I've been gaming at 4K since my GTX 970 SLI days, with 780 for PhysX, then GTX 1080 SLI>2080 Ti>3090 Ti>4090 & 4080 SUPER, I have seen how CPUs can be bottlenecked as they get older. I don't usually check frametimes and for decades judged my system's performance simply by FPS only to experience total shock of how much smoother things got when I upgraded my CPU, even at 1080p while the FPS didn't change much. Going from 2600K to 4930K, day and night experience in terms of improvement, then again from 4930K to 3700X, and then 5800X3D.

I guess one thing that doesn't regularly get covered in many of the 9800X3D reviews, is comparing to older gens. I even remember seeing this happen with some of the 7800X3D reviews. Basically a lot of comparisons for the current and the last gen but nothing beyond where as the question comes up how often are PC owners going to upgrade? The 5800X3D is just over 2 1/2 years old, still widely spoken about, but not included in 9800X3D comparisons while the 7800X3D is only a year younger. But should folks be upgrading their CPU every year or so because reviewers drop the older gen and merely focus on the most recent which often shows negligible 4K gains over the previous? I don't believe so but the lack of inclusion in review data almost seems to suggest a line of thought that if your processor isn't in the list then it's time to upgrade.

I think most who have a 7800X3D, 12900K or newer, don't have any intention of getting a 9800X3D while those with older processors, 5000 series or older, 10900K or older, are very much at the point of considering it and are the ones thinking about the performance differences at 4K as they either upgrade to, or are simply jumping in to, 4K gaming.

I also see two sides of this for reviewers. It's pretty much a given that you have to have at least a 4080 SUPER/7900XT to really get your foot in the door for native4K gaming at high FPS, and even then a very tempered approach if it involves ray tracing, and according to surveys left and right the amount of users with such systems are not in double-digit territory and only rarely just above. You more or less have to have a 4090 or 7900XTX to truly push that envelope. That being said, also how many reviews are using said GPUs? Brent does and thanks to the powers that be so we know he's giving us solid #s. I've also learned for years from him and @David_Schroth, @Dan_D , and Kyle on how to overclock my GPUs so I've been pushing to the max without custom loops for a while now (only got into AIO models in recent years), but again, with all the folks asking about 4K gaming, how many really have the hardware to make the difference.
 
I guess one thing that doesn't regularly get covered in many of the 9800X3D reviews, is comparing to older gens. I even remember seeing this happen with some of the 7800X3D reviews. Basically a lot of comparisons for the current and the last gen but nothing beyond where as the question comes up how often are PC owners going to upgrade?

This is something that has been bugging me for years, if you want to find out how a 4-5 gen old pce of hardware compares to something new you have to dig trough as much old reviews to get somewhat of an idea, I get there is a limit to what can be tested once you get a review sample, but nothing should stop someone from maintaining some benchmarks on older gens, even if the would be somehwat dated some data is better then none.

I just upgraded to a 9900X, not that I realy needed to but my motherboard was on it's way out, icue needed to be restarted 8 out of 10 wake up from sleep as it would not find my keyboard, took up to 30 sec after wake up to be able to use mouse and keyboard again. Originally I was going to go from 12700k to a 14900k since I could reuse everything but the performance difference was not there and in hindsight after the degradation of said SPU's I'm even happier I did not go that route.

I briefly tought about the 9800X3D but did not want to go back to 8 cores (also the 9900X was around 120€ chaper then the beeing price gouged 9800X3D). I did have to go to X670E to be able to use all my SSD's as Asrock's X870E's are all sold out.
 
My 9800X3D arrived. I thought it was a joke when I saw it in stock at Newegg at MSRP and ordered one. My order went through and the shipping label was created. I still did not believe it as the tracking information said "shipper has not received the item". But lo and behold it shipped on time and arrived in two days! I am going to pair it with an MSI X670E Carbon WiFi that I had laying around and some GSKill 30-36-36 6k MT/s DRAM.

I'll post some results this weekend with both Win 10x64 and Win 11x64. At the moment I am not ready to tear down my 5800X3D rig, so no game testing. Any open source benchmarks you'd like to see?
 
Test System:
----------------
MSI X670E Carbon Wifi (see notes)
Thermalright Peerless Assasin 120SE
GSkill TridentZ f5-6000J3036G32GX2-TZ5NRW, 2 X 32 Gb, 30-36-36-36-96 1.4v EXPO
Seasonic Focus 550W (will be switched out in my production rig to a Zippy EMACS 1kW)

Notes:
--------
  • I was extra careful in installing the CPU, given the report of one burnt 9800X3D with an MSI board. But you really have to try hard to mess this up. There are guide notches for the CPU to snugly slot in. Of course this is not the board that the reddit user was using, but I don't think sockets would have changed. I believe that was a case of user error.
  • I had BIOS 1J3 released on 7/15/24 and the system booted fine after a couple of tries. The usual CPU has changed complaint was inconsequential.
  • I did update to the latest BIOS 1M1 with no issues.
  • Win 10x64 USB installer also works fine.
  • Temps are pretty low at no load (37 C @ 1.170 V), as expected.
PS: Brent, am I messing up your thread?

How do I make the images not take up the entire screen?

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