Ford Adjusts F-150 Lightning Prices by Up to $9,979 for Customers

[Tsing]

Ford has announced that the F-150 Lightning has received updated MSRPs, allowing customers to purchase the EV with up to 320 miles of range at prices that come closer to what the vehicles were originally supposed to be sold at. The new pricing options, which include an adjustment of $9,979 for the entry-level pro model, are owed to increased plant capacity, continued work on scaling production and cost, and improved battery raw material costs.

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[Brian_B]

This, I'm sure, has nothing to do with the fact that they pretty much stopped selling cold after the $20,000 worth of markups since introduction.

At $40,000 - It was interesting and I may have considered looking at it on the lot - the double tax lease loophole does make it an interesting option. Once it shot up past $60,000 for the base model -- before you even look at something like extended range or 4WD - nah. Not even sorta.

 

[Zarathustra]

So, they launched the base model at $40k, then raised the price to $50k, and then raised it again to $60k, and now they want praise for lowering it to $50k, $10k higher than it was at launch.

I see what you did there Ford.

 

[Zarathustra]

Also, I am going to make the same comment on this EV thread as I do on every EV thread.

I just want a normal car, but electric.

No self driving features, no always on connectivity that spies on me, not a car that looks like an efficiency hatch (Chevy Bolt, Nissan Leaf, etc.), or somehow has to look "futuristic" (Hyundai Ioniq 5, etc). I want a normal car interior, with a normal instrument cluster, you know like we have had as long as cars have existed.

Jut a normal car. Sedan or wagon, I don't care.

I don't want an SUV in any size, I don't want a pickup truck, I don't want a self driving car, I don't want some sort of Tesla copy with a big screen in the center and no instrument cluster, I don/'t want some sort of innovative shifter. I don't want voice controls or integrated assistants.

I just want a normal car. A normal car that happens to have a battery and an electric motor instead of the traditional drive train.

Is that really too much to ask?

Thus far I have only seen one or two options.

1.) Volkswagen e-Golf.

I'd totally buy one of these if I can find one when I am ready for my next car, but they seem to have discontinued it, so that might be difficult. The early ones had WAY inadequate range, but the 2017+ year models are much more reasonable.

It's a bit on the small side, but for a commuter car I guess that is fine. I'll just have to have another vehicle for family drives.

2.) Polestar 2

It's close. It has some of that stupid connectivity ****, and who knows how much data it sends to China. They are also trying WAY too hard to be edgy. Yellow seat belts? Why? They are also way too overpriced.


Honestly, I think a gently used 2017+ Volkswagen eGolf is the perfect battery electric car. The range isn't as long as the competition, but if you are only using it for a normal commute during the week, who cares? You don't need a 300+ mile range to drive 20 miles each way to work.

 

[Peter_Brosdahl]

I just want a normal car, but electric.

Could not agree more.

 

[Uvilla]

You know I find it funny people so concerned about info 'going to china'.

 

[Uvilla]

Could not agree more.

You won't get that at all, and ' normal cars' are going the exact same direction as the electrics. Its not anything to do with the power train. Everything is drive by wire anyway, what you put at the end or the start of said wire can change to whatever. Meaning they can take out the driver and put a computer or rip out the gas engine and put a battery and a motor.

 

[Zarathustra]

You know I find it funny people so concerned about info 'going to china'.

You do realize that they have a long and well documented history of industrial espionage that has killed many western companies and destroyed entire industries, right?

It is China's stated goal to by any means possible control many key future industries.

The way it usually works is they through espionage either:

- Directly by stealing anything they can collect through electronic means; or
- Through blackmail by using data they collect on people

steal western technology. Then they proceed to dump Chinese state funds into that technology to allow Chinese firms to dump that stolen technology onto the market at prices that the actual inventors of the technology cannot compete with driving them out of business.

Then they jack up the prices and control the industry for all future.

And I don't care who you are, or how squeaky clean you think you are. Everyone has something they would rather not be public, even if it is just their health history, or social security number.

It is absolutely crucial for the future of the entire economies of the western world that Chinese espionage be defeated by any means possible.

If I were in power, I would have banned every last electronic device made in china already, short term consequences to the economy be damned, as the long term consequences of doing nothing are far too grave.

If you don't care about these things, you are a huge part of the problem. We are literally in an existential battle here.

China is systematically trying to destroy our economies, and you are playing right into their hands.

 

[Zarathustra]

You won't get that at all, and ' normal cars' are going the exact same direction as the electrics. Its not anything to do with the power train. Everything is drive by wire anyway, what you put at the end or the start of said wire can change to whatever. Meaning they can take out the driver and put a computer or rip out the gas engine and put a battery and a motor.

That's why we have to stop submitting and buying them. The only thing that will stop this evil trend is when the big car companies no longer can sell cars because they aren't making what people want. Then they will be forced to change their tune for face extinction.

But people are too stupid and lack enough self control to do this, so we will repeatedly be doomed by the lowest common denominator.

 

[Armenius]

Also, I am going to make the same comment on this EV thread as I do on every EV thread.

I just want a normal car, but electric.

No self driving features, no always on connectivity that spies on me, not a car that looks like an efficiency hatch (Chevy Bolt, Nissan Leaf, etc.), or somehow has to look "futuristic" (Hyundai Ioniq 5, etc). I want a normal car interior, with a normal instrument cluster, you know like we have had as long as cars have existed.

Jut a normal car. Sedan or wagon, I don't care.

I don't want an SUV in any size, I don't want a pickup truck, I don't want a self driving car, I don't want some sort of Tesla copy with a big screen in the center and no instrument cluster, I don/'t want some sort of innovative shifter. I don't want voice controls or integrated assistants.

I just want a normal car. A normal car that happens to have a battery and an electric motor instead of the traditional drive train.

Is that really too much to ask?

Thus far I have only seen one or two options.

1.) Volkswagen e-Golf.

I'd totally buy one of these if I can find one when I am ready for my next car, but they seem to have discontinued it, so that might be difficult. The early ones had WAY inadequate range, but the 2017+ year models are much more reasonable.

It's a bit on the small side, but for a commuter car I guess that is fine. I'll just have to have another vehicle for family drives.

2.) Polestar 2

It's close. It has some of that stupid connectivity ****, and who knows how much data it sends to China. They are also trying WAY too hard to be edgy. Yellow seat belts? Why? They are also way too overpriced.


Honestly, I think a gently used 2017+ Volkswagen eGolf is the perfect battery electric car. The range isn't as long as the competition, but if you are only using it for a normal commute during the week, who cares? You don't need a 300+ mile range to drive 20 miles each way to work.

Couldn't agree more. It's something I've been saying since the new EV push and hybrids hit the market 20 years ago. I don't need my car to stand out from others in order to make some kind of statement. Toyota has gotten that through their thick skulls in the past few years, with the Hybrid versions of the Camry and Corolla looking no different than the gas versions. Now we just need EVs to follow that same thinking, especially when it comes to the interior.

You won't get that at all, and ' normal cars' are going the exact same direction as the electrics. Its not anything to do with the power train. Everything is drive by wire anyway, what you put at the end or the start of said wire can change to whatever. Meaning they can take out the driver and put a computer or rip out the gas engine and put a battery and a motor.

Drive-by-wire doesn't require 24/7 connectivity to the internet to function.

 

[Uvilla]

You do realize that they have a long and well documented history of industrial espionage that has killed many western companies and destroyed entire industries, right?

It is China's stated goal to by any means possible control many key future industries.

The way it usually works is they through espionage either:

- Directly by stealing anything they can collect through electronic means; or
- Through blackmail by using data they collect on people

steal western technology. Then they proceed to dump Chinese state funds into that technology to allow Chinese firms to dump that stolen technology onto the market at prices that the actual inventors of the technology cannot compete with driving them out of business.

Then they jack up the prices and control the industry for all future.

And I don't care who you are, or how squeaky clean you think you are. Everyone has something they would rather not be public, even if it is just their health history, or social security number.

It is absolutely crucial for the future of the entire economies of the western world that Chinese espionage be defeated by any means possible.

If I were in power, I would have banned every last electronic device made in china already, short term consequences to the economy be damned, as the long term consequences of doing nothing are far too grave.

If you don't care about these things, you are a huge part of the problem. We are literally in an existential battle here.

China is systematically trying to destroy our economies, and you are playing right into their hands.

If you buy a polestar you are buying a Swedish desing, china built car, roughly speaking. Lord knows connectivity might be American chips with 50% of designs and patents being Chinese. Software might be Chinese with tons of American lines of codes or it might very well be opposite.
Yes it is a worry to have cars connected to the nanny state, and its minions, Ms, apple, google, amazon ao on. i would be much less worried if it connected straight to huawei and aliexpress to be honest, because why? Are they going to give me a low insurance score in china? Of course made in china or in texas, once they finished the requirements of remote disabling, turn on internal cameras remotely, as required per US government, well chinese or American you can rest easy, both will comply 100% both will connect nicely with the government agency designated. All right here you know very American.

 

[Zarathustra]

If you buy a polestar you are buying a Swedish desing, china built car, roughly speaking. Lord knows connectivity might be American chips with 50% of designs and patents being Chinese. Software might be Chinese with tons of American lines of codes or it might very well be opposite.
Yes it is a worry to have cars connected to the nanny state, and its minions, Ms, apple, google, amazon ao on. i would be much less worried if it connected straight to huawei and aliexpress to be honest, because why? Are they going to give me a low insurance score in china? Of course made in china or in texas, once they finished the requirements of remote disabling, turn on internal cameras remotely, as required per US government, well chinese or American you can rest easy, both will comply 100% both will connect nicely with the government agency deaignated. All right here you know very American.

Lets not draw any false equivalences here.

In the U.S. any such action requires a warrant, where a judge has to sign off on the request to make sure it is not abused.

The courts don't always get things right, after all they are run by people, and people are imperfect, but they are the best solution anyone in the world has to strike the balance between abuse of power, and allowing criminals to run rampant. That, and they are not fake kangaroo courts like in the more authoritarian parts of the world, where these courts are just set up in a lame attempt to legitimize a predetermined outcome.

I am perfectly fine with a legitimate warrant being executed for a search. That's the way any system is supposed to work.

 

[DrezKill]

Not exactly related to the thread, but @Zarathustra kinda reminded me of this, which I am extremely happy about: https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/the-glorious-return-of-an-old-school-car-feature/ar-AA1anYAl

"Happily, there is one area where we are making at least marginal progress: A growing number of automakers are backpedaling away from the huge, complex touchscreens that have infested dashboard design over the last 15 years. Buttons and knobs are coming back.

The touchscreen pullback is the result of consumer backlash, not the enactment of overdue regulations or an awakening of corporate responsibility. Many drivers want buttons, not screens, and they’ve given carmakers an earful about it. Auto executives have long brushed aside safety concerns about their complex displays—and all signs suggest they would have happily kept doing so. But their customers are revolting, which has forced them to pay attention."

"As I explained in a 2021 Slate article, the trend toward car touchscreens has been a dangerous one for road safety. Those who drove in the 1990s will remember using buttons and knobs to change the radio or adjust the air conditioning without looking down from the steering wheel. Despite their name, touchscreens rely on a driver’s eyes as much as her fingers to navigate – and every second that she is looking at a screen is a second that she isn’t looking at the road ahead. Navigating through various levels of menus to reach a desired control can be particularly dangerous; one study by the AAA Foundation concluded that infotainment touchscreens can distract a driver for up to 40 seconds, long enough to cover half a mile at 50 mph."

"The irony is that everyone basically accepts that it’s dangerous to use your phone while driving. Yet no one complains about what we’re doing instead, which is fundamentally using an iPad while driving. If you’re paying between $40,000 and $300,000 for a car, you’re getting an iPad built onto the dashboard."

"Meanwhile, the few big automakers that skipped the touchscreen craze have not been shy about letting the world know—while offering a few digs at their competitors. 'I think people are going to get tired of these big black screens,' Alfonso Albaisa, Nissan’s senior VP for global design, told Green Car Reports. Hyundai, too, has voiced its commitment to buttons and dials."

Along with drive-by-wire, I've been complaining about touchscreen menus and controls in cars for too many years now. I'm glad to see some kind of positive change happening.

 

[Armenius]

Not exactly related to the thread, but @Zarathustra kinda reminded me of this, which I am extremely happy about: https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/the-glorious-return-of-an-old-school-car-feature/ar-AA1anYAl

"Happily, there is one area where we are making at least marginal progress: A growing number of automakers are backpedaling away from the huge, complex touchscreens that have infested dashboard design over the last 15 years. Buttons and knobs are coming back.

The touchscreen pullback is the result of consumer backlash, not the enactment of overdue regulations or an awakening of corporate responsibility. Many drivers want buttons, not screens, and they’ve given carmakers an earful about it. Auto executives have long brushed aside safety concerns about their complex displays—and all signs suggest they would have happily kept doing so. But their customers are revolting, which has forced them to pay attention."

"As I explained in a 2021 Slate article, the trend toward car touchscreens has been a dangerous one for road safety. Those who drove in the 1990s will remember using buttons and knobs to change the radio or adjust the air conditioning without looking down from the steering wheel. Despite their name, touchscreens rely on a driver’s eyes as much as her fingers to navigate – and every second that she is looking at a screen is a second that she isn’t looking at the road ahead. Navigating through various levels of menus to reach a desired control can be particularly dangerous; one study by the AAA Foundation concluded that infotainment touchscreens can distract a driver for up to 40 seconds, long enough to cover half a mile at 50 mph."

"The irony is that everyone basically accepts that it’s dangerous to use your phone while driving. Yet no one complains about what we’re doing instead, which is fundamentally using an iPad while driving. If you’re paying between $40,000 and $300,000 for a car, you’re getting an iPad built onto the dashboard."

"Meanwhile, the few big automakers that skipped the touchscreen craze have not been shy about letting the world know—while offering a few digs at their competitors. 'I think people are going to get tired of these big black screens,' Alfonso Albaisa, Nissan’s senior VP for global design, told Green Car Reports. Hyundai, too, has voiced its commitment to buttons and dials."

Along with drive-by-wire, I've been complaining about touchscreen menus and controls in cars for too many years now. I'm glad to see some kind of positive change happening.

Throttle-by-wire isn't too bad these days, but I'll be damned if I ever drive a car with steering-by-wire. Looking at you, Nissan/Infiniti.

 

[DrezKill]

Throttle-by-wire isn't too bad these days, but I'll be damned if I ever drive a car with steering-by-wire. Looking at you, Nissan/Infiniti.

Throttle-by-wire bothers me less than brake-by-wire and especially steer-by-wire. I heard some companies were experimenting with clutch-by-wire which is a VERY bad idea if you ask me. Don't think any production car with a manual transmission has ever had such though. But yeah, steer-by-wire, ugh. Driven too many cars like that. Makes me all the more glad I drive a car that is 25 years old. I wish I could say that the car is from a time long before drive-by-wire sh1t came out, but even Corvette C5s back then were using at least throttle-by-wire. But my own car is 100% free of drive-by-wire crap, and I am thankful for that every time I jump in my car.

 

[Peter_Brosdahl]

I haven't had any issues with our cars that have drive-by-wire but then we've only ever had two which are still our only current vehicles. I've no desire for steer or brake but I'm happy with drive as I really don't miss the days of those cables grinding until they snap. Back in the days when I used to do my own repairs, I replaced more than a few.

 

[Armenius]

Going back to that article above about touchscreens losing favor, I was led to this article. The shot of the VW screen made me furious. You have to use the touchscreen to adjust the position of the vents? THE VENTS?! As if it wasn't bad enough that windshield wipers found their way to touchscreen control on Teslas. We can also see the use of capacitive buttons on the steering wheel instead of mechanical. Just... WHY?

VW Already Talking About Dumping Touchscreen Controls in Future EVs

Volkswagen will switch back to physical buttons in the ID.7 after customer feedback indicated problems with touch controls.

www.thedrive.com

 

[DrezKill]

We can also see the use of capacitive buttons on the steering wheel instead of mechanical. Just... WHY?

(11:40 to 15:30)
Just... NO.

You have to use the touchscreen to adjust the position of the vents? THE VENTS?! As if it wasn't bad enough that windshield wipers found their way to touchscreen control on Teslas.

I have already seen waaaay too many controls for normal sh1t being thrown into touchscreen menus. This whole situation is getting to be absolutely ridiculous. Honestly I am surprised it has gone on for so long.

 

[Grimlakin]

Going back to that article above about touchscreens losing favor, I was led to this article. The shot of the VW screen made me furious. You have to use the touchscreen to adjust the position of the vents? THE VENTS?! As if it wasn't bad enough that windshield wipers found their way to touchscreen control on Teslas. We can also see the use of capacitive buttons on the steering wheel instead of mechanical. Just... WHY?

Ve have a very Clean Astetic... can I show you our Shovers?

 

[DrezKill]

I've no desire for steer or brake but I'm happy with drive as I really don't miss the days of those cables grinding until they snap. Back in the days when I used to do my own repairs, I replaced more than a few.

I feel that. But I still personally love the feeling and feedback that opening a throttle body via a throttle cable gives me. Not to mention much finer modulation and control of the throttle pedal. I find that with throttle-by-wire, using the throttle pedal is weird, and depending on how it was programmed, there can be dead zones, or non-linear changes in throttle response. Like with my mom's 2002 Tbird. You press the throttle pedal a little bit, it does nothing. Press it a little more, it does nothing. Press it a little more, does nothing. Press it a little more, it does too much. But Ford throttle-by-wire is especially bad. I've driven several drive-by-wire Ford vehicles that all have their own weird issues with the throttle-by-wire setup. In a C5 Corvette, there is a throttle delay. Throttle-by-wire stuff is offputting when not done well.

VW Already Talking About Dumping Touchscreen Controls in Future EVs

Volkswagen will switch back to physical buttons in the ID.7 after customer feedback indicated problems with touch controls.

www.thedrive.com

Glad to see another automaker that plans to cut back on the touchscreen crap. Cuz yeah VW's current sh1t is ridiculous, if that picture you posted is any indication.