Lexus Developing Manual Transmission for Electric Cars

[Zarathustra]

I love the idea of Hybrids, but I hate the fact it's two separate powertrains begging for something to break. Does anyone sell a Hybrid that is infact a pure electric vehicle with a gas powered generator to charge the battery?

The Chevy Volt was supposed to be like this, but late in the development process it didn't work out of them, and they suddenly switched to more of a traditional plug-in hybrid.

I'm not sure what changed. I'm guessing they did a user focus group and found that drivers didn't like the engine changing revs independently of throttle position, and stuff like that.

It would be interesting to know exactly why they had that change of mind.

 

[Zarathustra]

Same boat here - PHEV seems like best of all worlds, but the 2 different drive trains is ... overly complex.

No idea why they don't use the ICE as a recharge - it wouldn't even need to be 100% charge rate, it just needs to be something over highway power draw.

I suspect user focus groups killed it.

Similarly as with CVT's, end users just don't like engine revs doing their own things. They want to floor it, hear a screaming engine going from low RPM's up to high RPM's, and doing that over for each gear.

It's entirely cosmetic, but some people are really stuck in their ways, and I think this scares manufacturers off.

Sure, there are some more technically minded people who are into doing it the technically correct way, and are willing to dispense with learned norms of engine revving patterns, but are there enough of them to sustain a large product line?

Its safer to release a suboptimal product than it is to release one that is highly optimized but tanks for cosmetic reasons.

 

[Zarathustra]

Toyota Remote Connect: $8 a month or $80 a year to make full use of the key fob. Disgusting.

Couldn't agree more.

Unfortunately so many car makers are doing stuff like this.

Pisses me off. If I buy something stupid like a $4 "smart" light bulb, I get connectivity services for life included.

If I buy a $60k car, they want me to pay a subscription fee for the privilege.

It's absolutely nuts.

I tend to think in normal circumstances something like this would be a major turn-off causing people to buy another car, but the manufacturers know this, so they include it free with a car purchase for the first 2-3 years so no one is thinking about it, until they realize that they have to pay for this bullshit down the road.

This pisses me off to no end with my Volvo s90. It has connected features in a smartphone app. I can do **** like remote start the car and adjust the temperature to cool it on a hot day or warm it up on a cold one before I get in. I can also open or close windows, lock doors, see things like mileage, how much fuel is in the tank etc. etc. straight from the app. That's nice and convenient I guess.

The fact that they want me to PAY over a hundred bucks a year for the privilege is absolutely ridiculous. This should be something that is included with the car for free, for life.

When my "CPO trial" expired, I was like "eff that". It was a cool feature at first, but ultimately I think I only used it 5 times in 2 years, so it certainly wouldn't have been worth the $200 for those two years if I was paying for it. That would have been $40 a shot. Can I afford it? Certainly, but it triggers my "you are being ripped off" sensibilities, which makes me dig my heels in and refuse to pay for it under any circumstance.

It was fine up until a few months ago when my car got the latest software update. Now they've turned my car into nagware. Every goddamn time I start up the car it "reminds" me that my connected services have expired and to go to their ripoff webpage to re-subscribe with a big ol'e popup on the center console screen.

It makes me want to stab people.

No, it hasn't ****ing "expired", I have CHOSEN that I never want to use it because it is a rip-off.

 

[Grimlakin]

Couldn't agree more.

Unfortunately so many car makers are doing stuff like this.

Pisses me off. If I buy something stupid like a $4 "smart" light bulb, I get connectivity services for life included.

If I buy a $60k car, they want me to pay a subscription fee for the privilege.

It's absolutely nuts.

I tend to think in normal circumstances something like this would be a major turn-off causing people to buy another car, but the manufacturers know this, so they include it free with a car purchase for the first 2-3 years so no one is thinking about it, until they realize that they have to pay for this bullshit down the road.

This pisses me off to no end with my Volvo s90. It has connected features in a smartphone app. I can do **** like remote start the car and adjust the temperature to cool it on a hot day or warm it up on a cold one before I get in. I can also open or close windows, lock doors, see things like mileage, how much fuel is in the tank etc. etc. straight from the app. That's nice and convenient I guess.

The fact that they want me to PAY over a hundred bucks a year for the privilege is absolutely ridiculous. This should be something that is included with the car for free, for life.

When my "CPO trial" expired, I was like "eff that". It was a cool feature at first, but ultimately I think I only used it 5 times in 2 years, so it certainly wouldn't have been worth the $200 for those two years if I was paying for it. That would have been $40 a shot. Can I afford it? Certainly, but it triggers my "you are being ripped off" sensibilities, which makes me dig my heels in and refuse to pay for it under any circumstance.

It was fine up until a few months ago when my car got the latest software update. Now they've turned my car into nagware. Every goddamn time I start up the car it "reminds" me that my connected services have expired and to go to their ripoff webpage to re-subscribe with a big ol'e popup on the center console screen.

It makes me want to stab people.

No, it hasn't ****ing "expired", I have CHOSEN that I never want to use it because it is a rip-off.

Time to find a community update to solve that.

 

[Brian_B]

It was fine up until a few months ago when my car got the latest software update. Now they've turned my car into nagware. Every goddamn time I start up the car it "reminds" me that my connected services have expired and to go to their ripoff webpage to re-subscribe with a big ol'e popup on the center console screen.

Yup - I'm sorta kinda shopping around for a new car, and Volvo was on my short list.

Until this happened. Now they are on the "Hell No" list.

 

[Zarathustra]

Yup - I'm sorta kinda shopping around for a new car, and Volvo was on my short list.

Until this happened. Now they are on the "Hell No" list.

The sad part is that pretty much all manufacturers appear to be doing some form of this now.

The only way to avoid it would be to buy a low mileage older car with a reputation for longevity.

I have been tempted to just get rid of my fancypants S90, and just use my 22 year old backup/hauler wagon as my daily.



After all, I don't need to impress anyone, and I don't value "luxury" features. Most of the time they just annoy me.

Why on earth would I want an electric motor to open and close my trunk for me?

 

[Endgame]

The Chevy Volt was supposed to be like this, but late in the development process it didn't work out of them, and they suddenly switched to more of a traditional plug-in hybrid.

I'm not sure what changed. I'm guessing they did a user focus group and found that drivers didn't like the engine changing revs independently of throttle position, and stuff like that.

It would be interesting to know exactly why they had that change of mind.

I ran a quick Google search, and the volt series one appears to be an extended range electric with a gas generator “range extender”. The series 2 basically flopped as it cost the same as the model 3, and the model 3 has 300 miles range fully EV vs 70 miles EV + gas.

Neither helps me put 3 car seats and 3 adults in the same vehicle

 

[Peter_Brosdahl]

The sad part is that pretty much all manufacturers appear to be doing some form of this now.

The only way to avoid it would be to buy a low mileage older car with a reputation for longevity.

I have been tempted to just get rid of my fancypants S90, and just use my 22 year old backup/hauler wagon as my daily.

View attachment 2121

After all, I don't need to impress anyone, and I don't value "luxury" features. Most of the time they just annoy me.

Why on earth would I want an electric motor to open and close my trunk for me?

Hey, we're schlepping along in an 09 Forester and 02 Grand Caravan Sport so I get it. Sometime in the next few years, I'd like to upgrade to an AWD Hybrid Van but between price and these crappy designs I'm leaning towards finding something used (non-electric/hybrid) in the 2015-2020 range.

 

[Burticus]

Yeah while I like the idea of battery car or a hybrid, I'm in no rush to flush 40-60k+ for it. Unless gas gets to like $8 I will milk my current 2104 Maxima into the grave I guess................

I would like a technology upgrade though, those 360 cameras are pretty cool... but nope. Mine doesn't even do music over BT (only calls), I have to plug in a cord....

 

[Brian_B]

Unless gas gets to like $8 I will milk my current 2104 Maxima into the grave I guess................

I am heartened to know that gas remains that cheap 80 years from now.

 

[Uvilla]

So, I thought electric motor do have different efficiency, at different rpms...maybe not enough to off set the burden of a transmission?