Microsoft Plans to Move Windows 11 “Increasingly to the Cloud”

[Zarathustra]

Looks like I'll be on Windows 10 for the rest of my life

Generally a bad idea to use an OS past its EOL date in our constantly online era. Pretty much all software needs to be actively maintained and patched, or it has a real potential for problems.

There are other alternatives though. Might not bbe a bad time to get refamilliarized with modern Linux just so you have a fallback plan when the time comes.

 

[Riccochet]

Generally a bad idea to use an OS past its EOL date in our constantly online era. Pretty much all software needs to be actively maintained and patched, or it has a real potential for problems.

There are other alternatives though. Might not bbe a bad time to get refamilliarized with modern Linux just so you have a fallback plan when the time comes.

I use my home PC for gaming. Linux is not an option.

 

[Peter_Brosdahl]

One thing is for sure, things are going to get interesting between 2024-2026 in regard to this. I'm Apple and Android/Google already have things in the works and all are laying their own plans.

 

[Zarathustra]

I use my home PC for gaming. Linux is not an option.

Linux is getting better for gaming all the time. I'd agree that it is not 100% there yet (despite its evangelists) but its much better than you probably think it is.

DXVK and Proton are built right into the Linux version of the Steam client these days, so all you need to do is install and launch the game as you normally would and chances are it will work, even if there isn't a native Linux port. It's not 100% though, sometimes you'll have to hit the forums or use trial and error and try a different version of proton for the best experience (but this is easy, and is done in the GUI of Steam)

It is rare to find a title that doesn't work. Only downside is that there is usually a performance hit compared to running under Windows, but that is getting better all the time.

I'd familiarize myself with it. Linux has been improving so fast for gaming that if it continues, there will be a point in time when it really is an equivalent experience. If you have tested it out and know it well, you can assess when it is good enough for you (or when Microsoft pisses you off enough) and be ready for the switch.

I test it every couple of years, and every time I do I'm surprised by how much better it has become. In ~2015 it was **** near unusually bad even for native Linux ports, insisiting on running games on my side monitors with no way to switch it, etc. Now even most Windows games with no Linux port run well, albeit with some performance hits, but the performance bit keeps getting better.

Of course, it figures, as I am talking about how much better it has become, there seems to have been a regression on Linux since the new Steam, user interface was introduced. They screwed up the client, and the fonts are all too big for the layout which is making it difficult to navigate.



In general it works really well though, and I could still sign in with and use this version of the client (with a little bit of navigation difficulty). This is the first time I've seen something like this in several years of testing the Linux Steam client, so it is atypical.

 

[Riccochet]

Not interested in tinkering and trying to figure out how to get a game to run, or worrying about a performance hit. I don't have time or patience for that anymore. I leave steam run so I don't even have to worry about patches not having been downloaded. When I have a spare hour I just want to fire the game up and play.

Steam on Linux is going to have to get a lot better before I'll even consider it.

 

[Peter_Brosdahl]

I'm in the same boat with not wanting to tinker with OS-related stuff just to get games and the features I want to work. I really want to abandon Windows but at the moment it mostly works as a turnkey system. I am glad that Linux keeps improving though. Maybe someday. . .if I get to retire and still have the energy to put into it I will but for right now my "free" time is very, very limited.

 

[Armenius]

Linux is getting better for gaming all the time. I'd agree that it is not 100% there yet (despite its evangelists) but its much better than you probably think it is.

DXVK and Proton are built right into the Linux version of the Steam client these days, so all you need to do is install and launch the game as you normally would and chances are it will work, even if there isn't a native Linux port. It's not 100% though, sometimes you'll have to hit the forums or use trial and error and try a different version of proton for the best experience (but this is easy, and is done in the GUI of Steam)

It is rare to find a title that doesn't work. Only downside is that there is usually a performance hit compared to running under Windows, but that is getting better all the time.

I'd familiarize myself with it. Linux has been improving so fast for gaming that if it continues, there will be a point in time when it really is an equivalent experience. If you have tested it out and know it well, you can assess when it is good enough for you (or when Microsoft pisses you off enough) and be ready for the switch.

I test it every couple of years, and every time I do I'm surprised by how much better it has become. In ~2015 it was **** near unusually bad even for native Linux ports, insisiting on running games on my side monitors with no way to switch it, etc. Now even most Windows games with no Linux port run well, albeit with some performance hits, but the performance bit keeps getting better.

Of course, it figures, as I am talking about how much better it has become, there seems to have been a regression on Linux since the new Steam, user interface was introduced. They screwed up the client, and the fonts are all too big for the layout which is making it difficult to navigate.

View attachment 2557

In general it works really well though, and I could still sign in with and use this version of the client (with a little bit of navigation difficulty). This is the first time I've seen something like this in several years of testing the Linux Steam client, so it is atypical.

DXR ray tracing support with VKD3D is spotty, at best, and since it needs to translate the DXR calls to VK RT it means a general decrease in performance compared to native. You may not care about ray tracing, but I and others do.

 

[Brian_B]

I really want to abandon Windows but at the moment it mostly works as a turnkey system.

This is more or less the boat I'm in. I certainly understand Riccochet (and others) about just wanting a system that works, and I agree with that.

These two reasons are the only reasons I'm still running Windows on my main rig right now. Although if/when I build another new rig, I probably will start out with Linux on that one and see how it goes. I just don't want to mess up my current rig that's working and have to spend a weekend fiddling around with it.

I am totally fed up with Microsoft though - fed up enough to jump over even. Just not fed up enough to dedicate a weekend (or longer) doing it.

 

[DrezKill]

I go for more of a best-of-both-worlds setup. Linux is my daily driver, but I do actually do some gaming in Linux. I switch over to Win10 for most gaming, and the scant few programs I need/want to run in Windows. I've been f*cking around with Linux since the mid 2000s, but it was only just last year that I switched to it being my main OS (and my younger bro has been doing that for at least a decade). I won't ever be switching back. You can see though that I haven't ditched Windows completely. You can't, not if you play games, or you care about things like HDR (I don't currently cuz I don't have a real HDR display). But my gaming experience in Linux, while very limited thus far, has been relatively trouble-free. Steam really does make things easy. Devs who put out native Linux versions of games make it even easier. ProtonDB is also your friend. I also haven't had any issues with stuff like VRR in Linux. Works just like it does on Windows. Valve and now their Steam Deck have especially been improving the situation of gaming on Linux overall. On my next system I plan to delve a lot deeper into gaming on the Linux side. My brother though would prefer to just use two separate systems, one as a Windows gaming box, the other as his Linux daily driver. I do admit that switching between the two OSes in a dual-boot setup is annoying, even with the fast boot times modern SSDs provide.

All that said, I completely understand that people don't wanna waste what little precious free time they have trying to get a game to work, or to set up their PCs to run Linux (or both Windows and Linux) to begin with. Much like a console, they just want to be able to fire up a game and play it, and it just works. We already spend enough time troubleshooting issues on just Windows as it is. And yeah, there's gonna be performance hits in most cases, especially with the big demanding triple-A games. Sometimes the opposite happens - for example, some games in the Metro series were known to perform better in Linux than on Windows (which ones I forget). Such situations are rare though. Sometimes there will be graphical, audio, or stability issues. Sometimes it'll be the use of tech like EAC (Easy Anti Cheat) that prevents you from playing the games you want on Linux. Indeed, gaming on Linux is not 100% there yet, but good gawd, the progress made in just the last decade+ alone has been absolutely astounding. But yeah, some people don't have the time to invest in a new OS configuration for their PC, get familiar with Linux, and mess around with games on Linux, and I get that. I eagerly await the day that gaming on Linux is a 100% equal or better experience as on Windows. I will probably be a very old man by then, but if I can live to see that day, I will be very happy.

I have to thank Microsoft. They're the ones that pushed me to main Linux. Really appreciate it guys!

I really want to abandon Windows but at the moment it mostly works as a turnkey system.

Exactly how a lot of my friends feel. Their computer works just fine with Windows and does all the things they need their PC to do, so why f*ck around with Linux, where they can't even run games as well as on Windows? One of my friends called Linux "the tinkerer's OS", an OS for computer enthusiasts to f*ck around with. He doesn't have a use for something like that. On the other hand, indeed all my friends are tired of Microsoft's BS, and their ever-increasing control over, and ruination of, the Windows family of OSes.

 

[Uvilla]

And that's why cloud windows will not fail given time.

 

[Tempest]

Windows has been moving in that direction for a long time.

A growing problem is the lack of transparency in the way that cloud-based applications and content are integrated into the OS. Windows needs a cleaner separation between what is local and what is not so that the user doesn't inadvertently trigger undesirable remote connections. For example, the file browser, menus, and taskbar have "features" buried in them that might establish a remote connection and download content without the user's awareness or consent. Is the built-in "save file" dialog presenting the user with a local folder or one hosted on Microsoft's servers? A built-in "AI" assistant? Great. Is the model hosted on Microsoft's servers? Not so great. (The technical limitations inherent to running a local instance of a ChatGPT-like application are beside the point.) Windows does its own thing while leaving the user in the dark.

Microsoft has violated my trust too many times in the past for me to consider its use for anything that involves sensitive data. I've only used the Enterprise editions of Windows (where one has existed). I can't imagine how terrible the Home editions must be. It's a shame, because MS has the resources to make a truly awesome desktop OS. Instead they made an OS that gave rise to a new category of software known as "decrapifiers", which must be among the most popular Windows applications.

Most of the issues that bother me don't really apply to a PC that's used as dedicated gaming-only device, however. They're more relevant to the general-purpose "workstation" PC, which to me is just synonymous with PC. But I realize that I belong to a shrinking minority. I won't use an OS unless I have explicit control over what is allowed to leave the machine.

I wish you all a pleasant, cloud-free day.

 

[Zarathustra]

Not interested in tinkering and trying to figure out how to get a game to run, or worrying about a performance hit. I don't have time or patience for that anymore. I leave steam run so I don't even have to worry about patches not having been downloaded. When I have a spare hour I just want to fire the game up and play.

Steam on Linux is going to have to get a lot better before I'll even consider it.

I'm in the same boat with not wanting to tinker with OS-related stuff just to get games and the features I want to work. I really want to abandon Windows but at the moment it mostly works as a turnkey system. I am glad that Linux keeps improving though. Maybe someday. . .if I get to retire and still have the energy to put into it I will but for right now my "free" time is very, very limited.

That is totally understandable.

I do the same, dual booting for games, but I keep my ears to the ground and monitor the progress of Linux gaming so that when Microsoft does something I really hate (like moving Windows to the cloud, or enforcing needing a Microsoft account to run Windows) I have the experience necessary to assess which is worse, having to deal with the state of Linux gaming when that happens, or deal with Microsofts bullshit.

That said, I feel the day when this will be a viable choice is rapidly approaching. Not 100% here yet, but...

 

[Grimlakin]

IT, and engineering for IT will still need dedicated OS's to solve the problems that break the connections to VDI's and such, and the ability to run stand alone with tools to do KVM and other type work. This will mean some stand alone hardware will always exist in some fashion. But by and large everyone will be running literally everything off of their phones. Wirelessly connect to an external display and kb and mouse and boom done you have everything you need on a VID somewhere in the cloud based on geofencing to do whatever you want.

And gaming... they've effectively solved gaming in VDI's back in the late 20teens. They've had enterprise solutions for 3d acceleration for VDI's for almost a decade now.

 

[Zarathustra]

IT, and engineering for IT will still need dedicated OS's to solve the problems that break the connections to VDI's and such, and the ability to run stand alone with tools to do KVM and other type work. This will mean some stand alone hardware will always exist in some fashion.

Probably as easy to get your handss on as a normal person as an Enterprise license to Windows is today.

But by and large everyone will be running literally everything off of their phones. Wirelessly connect to an external display and kb and mouse and boom done you have everything you need on a VID somewhere in the cloud based on geofencing to do whatever you want.

And gaming... they've effectively solved gaming in VDI's back in the late 20teens. They've had enterprise solutions for 3d acceleration for VDI's for almost a decade now.

I suspect you are right, that this is what they are pushing for, but I am hopeful that some element of traditional computing for consumers will remain.

Because if I can't own and customize my local machine hardware without needing to connect to anyhting on the internet, I'm out. I'll have to find another hobby. I'm not sure what else I would do, but I want nothing to do with cloud/streaming bullshit.

 

[Elf_Boy]

I'll just go back to my apple //c and //gs.

 

[LeRoy_Blanchard]

I had a friend say the same thing about DOS 6.22 when Windows 95 came out. Unfortunately, its just not feasible to stay in the past.

Hold my beer.

Linux has come a long way with gaming though. I think I might try it out again on a desktop. I've got a Steam Deck, which is Linux based, and running/playing games on that is pretty easy/straight forward. No tinkering with getting it to install, just click install, and play.

 

[Grimlakin]

Probably as easy to get your handss on as a normal person as an Enterprise license to Windows is today.

It'll just be the 'pro' version.

Or you know... eventually having your own hardware/OS without a proper license (meaning government license.) will mean that only individuals with proper licensing will own their own powerful hardware because of how 'dangerous' it is. Or those willing to break the law...

Look at shadowrun netrunners as an example and the laws there around them.

 

[Zarathustra]

Look at shadowrun netrunners as an example and the laws there around them.

I have no idea what any of this means, and Google didn't help.

 

[Zarathustra]

It'll just be the 'pro' version.

If that's the way they go, I don't have a problem with it. I'll happily pay for the pro version.

 

[Grimlakin]

I have no idea what any of thus means, and Google didn't help.

Shadowrun is a pen and paper rpg. Netrunners are the digital jockies. In that setting everyone uses their comlinks for everything. There are "decks" that are effectively full high end computers. They are against the law to own without a license. Like a handgun.