MSI: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Pricing “Not as Bad” as GeForce RTX 4080

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Many of NVIDIA's critics continue to call out the GeForce RTX 4080 for being what they claim is an overpriced graphics card, and one party that seems to agree with that idea seems to be MSI. According to screenshots shared online, the MSI Gaming USA account tweeted about its custom GeForce RTX 4070 Ti models a few days ago, ending with a note that their pricing is "not as bad as a 4080." The GeForce RTX 4080 carries an MSRP of $1,199, which some say is too much based on the level of performance that it offers.

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is next-gen GPU pricing out of control?​

Looking more closely at the RTX 4070 Ti backlash.

https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfo...-next-gen-gpu-pricing-out-of-control#comments

"the market - gamers - have the final say and this is the only factor likely to bring about a rethink on GPU prices. If the value isn't there, the product will not sell and graphics manufacturers will be compelled to cut its margins and offer the card at a discount."
 
Not only the 4080. It is out of control, no consumer graphics card should be significantly above $1000. The entire sku needs to move down in unision. The 4090 is $2000 now, it needs to be cut in half, and that means cutting the price of every other card in the lineup by half too. Then we can talk.

By the time the 4070ti gets here to the middle of Europe it is not 799, it is well above $1000. More than I paid for the 2080ti when it was top of the line still.
 
Riccochet said:
If they keep selling at those prices then Nvidia has zero reason to lower prices. Price is set by demand. As much as we don't like it.
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But the exact point is that they are not selling. First reports of excess 4080 stocks started coming in November, the situation only got worse since, with reports of retailers refusing to take returns on 4080s.
 
MadMummy76 said:
But the exact point is that they are not selling. First reports of excess 4080 stocks started coming in November, the situation only got worse since, with reports of retailers refusing to take returns on 4080s.
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I agree with MadMummy here. 4080s and 4070tis are in stock in ample quantities at my local microcenter. They seem to be in stock at new egg too, so it’s half what I wished for in Nov 2020. First I wanted stuff in stock so I wouldn’t need to buy from a scalper on eBay. Then I wanted it at a reasonable price, and I knew that the 3080 msrp was unreasonably low given mining. With mining currently not profitable, perhaps we will see some reasonable prices in a few months?
 
MadMummy76 said:
But the exact point is that they are not selling. First reports of excess 4080 stocks started coming in November, the situation only got worse since, with reports of retailers refusing to take returns on 4080s.
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The left half of my brain just keeps fuming about this because I'm watching the potential implosion and destruction of a hobby I had enjoyed.

The tin-foil covered half of my bring thinks: This is exactly what nVidia wants: it pushes an extreme margin on new parts, it sets precedent for keeping (or even continuing to expand) those margins in the future, they can claim victory "selling out" with extremely low production numbers, and it offloads that huge glut of 3000-series parts without having to resort to deep discounts because they look like a bargain in comparison. That all makes it ~great~ for the stock price - no one cares about the consumer... at least until they just stop putting up with this crap and decide to go outside instead of play video games. And who are we kidding, when it that going to happen? (They will just start playing on their phones instead)
 
Endgame said:
With mining currently not profitable, perhaps we will see some reasonable prices in a few months?
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I think it will take at least 2 things to start to bring prices back down:

* 3000 series glut needs to get cleared. We are still seeing new 3000-series SKUs be released, so we aren't through that yet.

* AMD product stack and pricing exerts pressure on nVidia sales, ~or~ people just stop buying GPU upgrades (not like they really have been too much, just look at Steam Hardware Survey)

It appears nVidia is trading the low margin high volume of the old low end for the lower sales but extremely high margins of the high end. Most expensive card on this list is $500 MSRP, the bulk of these cards are <=$300 MSRP. It doesn't look like consumers are convinced yet, but there must be enough people out there shelling out for these to make that calculus worth while.

1673364081838.png

Wall Street has been a bit bearish on nVidia since the crypto mining collapse, and while it's on a general upward trend since the release of the 4000 series, it still has a way to go to complete the rebound. To me (and I'm no stock analyst, just an armchair quarterback) -- you can clearly see Wall Street saw through the crypto sales -- after all, this is the second big boom we've rode through, so they knew what was coming. I think Wall Street cautiously agrees with nVidia's overall plan for recovery with Ada (much to my chagrin). So long as the quarterly updates play out, Wall Street will continue to play along - but if the balance sheet takes a hit (i.e. that calculus that nVidia is betting on doesn't work), then I would fully expect Wall Street to hammer nVidia again, and for nVidia to course correct in a hurry.

Me sitting in my armchair whining about the glory days won't get nVidia to make any changes, people bitching about high prices in Best Buy and on Reddit won't either. But Wall Street will, and in a hurry.

1673364287737.png
 
Brian_B said:
The left half of my brain just keeps fuming about this because I'm watching the potential implosion and destruction of a hobby I had enjoyed.

The tin-foil covered half of my bring thinks: This is exactly what nVidia wants: it pushes an extreme margin on new parts, it sets precedent for keeping (or even continuing to expand) those margins in the future, they can claim victory "selling out" with extremely low production numbers, and it offloads that huge glut of 3000-series parts without having to resort to deep discounts because they look like a bargain in comparison. That all makes it ~great~ for the stock price - no one cares about the consumer... at least until they just stop putting up with this crap and decide to go outside instead of play video games. And who are we kidding, when it that going to happen? (They will just start playing on their phones instead)
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Your tinfoil hat side needs to think about data center compute too. Right now NVidia can sell vast quantities of chips to that side of the market, and those will have even higher margin. As long as NVidia can fill Their wafer orders with high margin DC product, they don’t have pressure do really anything on the consumer side.
 
Endgame said:
Your tinfoil hat side needs to think about data center compute too. Right now NVidia can sell vast quantities of chips to that side of the market, and those will have even higher margin. As long as NVidia can fill Their wafer orders with high margin DC product, they don’t have pressure do really anything on the consumer side.
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Good point, I was just thinking consumer

Just to put some numbers to it, in the latest quarterly result:

Data Center: $3.8B (up 31% YoY)
Gaming/Consumer: $1.6B (down 51% YoY)

I haven't looked at these to see how they have trended in general over more that just this one report, but yeah, you are right - Data Center means more than Consumer, and by a good bit now.
 
I saw this on Reddit yesterday morning before this story came out. Plenty of folks on that thread say that where they live it's sold out but a few chimed in saying their local stores had similar stock.

1673365758960.png
 
Meanwhile AMD 7900 XTX cards are flat sold out everywhere. Maybe people are just jaded with Nvidia right now, because $1000-1200 AMD 7900 XTX's fly off the shelves. So it's clearly not a price thing. Or maybe there are just so few AMD cards being supplied. But then you'd think people would still opt for a 4080 or 4070 Ti....but they aren't.
 
Yea... I question my desire for a 4080 at this point. Why bother... the price is too high, I'm at 1440p, I don't even see a reason. If anything they need to come down in price and a 4080ti should be shy of 1k if not 800 or lower.
 
Riccochet said:
Meanwhile AMD 7900 XTX cards are flat sold out everywhere. Maybe people are just jaded with Nvidia right now, because $1000-1200 AMD 7900 XTX's fly off the shelves. So it's clearly not a price thing. Or maybe there are just so few AMD cards being supplied. But then you'd think people would still opt for a 4080 or 4070 Ti....but they aren't.
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You have a good point - it's not just a price thing. 4090's are pretty much equally sold out.

Yeah, part of that is going to be that they probably don't make as many of the top-end cards, so supply was always going to be lower. You might be on to something about people being jaded.

I think the biggest part is the message nVidia is sending with these prices: had they been named Titan / 4090 / 4080, at the current pricing, I don't think the backlash would have been nearly as bad. The performance increase would have still been in line, the a person expecting a 4080 for something in the high hundreds would have met that expectation, and everyone expects a x90 / Titan to come in at some super-premium pricing.

But you throw a x80 out there for $1200+, and an x70 out for $800+, and yeah. I know, a name is just a name... but branding means something, and companies spend a lot of time and investment into making it mean something and to set expectations.
 
Riccochet said:
Meanwhile AMD 7900 XTX cards are flat sold out everywhere. Maybe people are just jaded with Nvidia right now, because $1000-1200 AMD 7900 XTX's fly off the shelves. So it's clearly not a price thing. Or maybe there are just so few AMD cards being supplied. But then you'd think people would still opt for a 4080 or 4070 Ti....but they aren't.
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It's mostly rabid ATI/AMD fans is my guess. It was always almost religious zeal with some of them "I'll not buy nVidia even if AMD is much worse"

Also AMD's production capacity is even lower at this point. While they can't make more there is no reason to give it cheaper. But the 4080 has not outsold even the limited production capacity, and I'm convinced the 4070 will be the same way.
 
Marees said:

is next-gen GPU pricing out of control?​

Looking more closely at the RTX 4070 Ti backlash.

https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfo...-next-gen-gpu-pricing-out-of-control#comments

"the market - gamers - have the final say and this is the only factor likely to bring about a rethink on GPU prices. If the value isn't there, the product will not sell and graphics manufacturers will be compelled to cut its margins and offer the card at a discount."
Click to expand...

This is true, but the market has shown again and again to be full of FOMO ADHD kiddies* - many of whom have daddy's credit card - who are willing to pay whatever it takes to get the latest and greatest PC hardware, including giving massive bonuses to scalpers.

Unfortunately this has told the market that they can play the low volume high margin game instead of being more competitive with higher volumes. The rest of us wind up having no choice. Either we join into the stupidity, or we find a new hobby.

I think the issue is that playing games has gone from an activity a person sometimes does, to an identity. It's no longer "I sometimes enjoy games". Now it is "I AM a gamer". If your identity depends on having something, if it is who you are then you can't imagine going without, and you will thus do whatever it takes to get it, including putting yourself in debt, getting behind on your bills, guilt tripping your wealthy parents into supporting your habit, subsisting on a diet of nothing but store brand Mac'n'Cheese etc. etc.

The mining craze and pandemic shortages combined showed the likes of Nvidia that when push comes to shove consumer will spend more than they would have thought in their wildest dreams on even mid to low end GPU's. Of course they are going to take as much advantage of that as they can. They are a business after all. And a business - at that - in a market where they are by far the market leader in a duopoly where competition has all but broken down, and thus they can do whatever they want.

In another time, this would be a prime example of when one resorts to trust busting, and breaking up corporations because they ahve become too big at the expense of the consumer, but I don't even know how you'd accomplish that with a company like Nvidia. What, half their R&D department does goes one way, and half the other? That makes no sense.

*I know, this sounds pretty hypocritical coming as it does from someone who just bought a 4090, but at least I bided my time, and tried to minimize the over MSRP impact.
 
MadMummy76 said:
On another note you can buy two PS5 disc editions here from the price of a 4070Ti. With two bundled games. LOL, nVidia and AMD too needs to come back down to planet earth.
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Yeah those people saying consoles are going away might be way of in this market, consoles will thrive in the current landscape even if they also seen some price increase.
 
Denpepe said:
Yeah those people saying consoles are going away might be way of in this market, consoles will thrive in the current landscape even if they also seen some price increase.
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There may have been a time, maybe 5 years ago when this narrative rung true, but now PC gaming is so expensive that it is going to drive people TO consoles. Especially since cloud gaming services are failing left and right.
 
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