Star Wars Fans Are Beginning to Realize That the Sequel Trilogy Is Worse than the Prequels

Tsing

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I'm so sorry, George! Star Wars fans have begun waking up to the fact that the franchise might have been better left in the hands of its original, creative visionary, as Disney's sequel trilogy has done nothing other than damage the brand and its lore. As CNET's David Priest points out, Lucas's prequels had some incredibly cringe-worthy acting/dialogue/moments, but fans cannot discount all of the cool world-building and designs they introduced. Hell, even composer John Williams had a tough time finding inspiration for the sequel trilogy.

I find myself genuinely longing for the days of the prequels. What I'm feeling isn't nostalgia. And it isn't ironic "love" for schlocky cinema that animates prequel-memeing Redditors either. What I miss is the daring. Nobody can say George didn't swing for the fences with the prequels. After all, the same experimentalism that gave us Binks and the "sand" dialogue also gave us the iconic Darth Maul duel, the best opening sequence in any Star Wars movie, and so much more.
 

Dan_D

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Just beginning? I don't think so. I think most people have known for awhile. If they didn't get it after Episode 7, they certainly did after Episode 8. The Last Jedi would have or should have clued them in. Episode 8 is so bad it makes the two movies that bracket it worse. It's bad by Star Wars standards and bad in general.
 

JosiahBradley

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I'm not a huge star wars fan, so I've enjoyed all the movies so far. My favorite is rouge one so far.
 

Uvilla

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I never thought the prequels were terrible or anything.. I know Jar Jar got a lot of hate.. i was like whatever.. but I also realized the Jar Jar people (whatever they are) sacrifice themselves in numbers against a superior enemy (thats what I remember, i haven't re watched the whole thing since then). Thats not really funny, and while I don't remember that being presented like dark or anything, those situations happen in history to different degrees of success.
So yeah, the prequels had the sideways stuff, and the race, and the deviation, but also you went the rabbit hole with Anakin turning a kid into a messed up adult... The 3rd prequel was straight up rough in many aspects.. in many phsicological human aspects ( to my understanding) also had a messed up fight that left Anakin with just one? arm, and messed up... That stuff was serious writing, to me anyway.. I mean yeah, I was left with a lot of sugar, but the prequels had some protein in there so to speak.
The fighting sequences were great, I remember more yoda kicking *** than Darth maul but still.
. So on.
This Disney stuff... Wtf. Just wtf is this? No a single redeeming thing to say.
Mandalorian is great though... Each time I am left with MOST SEE MORE!!!.
 

Peter_Brosdahl

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For the prequels I think it can be a state of mind. For whatever reason I tried to start re-watching them again about 2-3 years ago. Didn't make it past ep. 2. Recently got Disney + and watched all in order again in 4k DolbyVision, including TFA. Couldn't do TLJ. My addition to eye candy allowed me to enjoy the run but even that isn't enough to get me thru another sitting of TLJ. That's one I'll need to look for a fan edit or keep the remote handy. Thankfully I've got a disc copy and easy enough to skip thru chapters. I get that it seemed like Rian was somehow trying to re-create the flow and feel of empire but seemed to not get the difference between revealing new story arcs as opposed to shaking it all like a snow globe to create drama.

I still cringe with Jar Jar stuff. I understand what George was trying to do with Padme and Anakin even if it doesn't feel natural. Aside from those issues I like the prequels. Obviously the Jedi/Sith/Jango Fett stuff are my favorite parts. The scene with Obi Wan fighting Jango in the asteroid field is still an audio reference moment for my sound systems. The opening scene for the battle in Revenge of the Sith is high on the list for visuals. I still have the special edition DVD for Phantom Menace with the 2nd disc that has the even more extended pod race. I hated the pod race back then but now is kind of fun. They've all got moments but TLJ has very, very, few. The mary poppins leah moment gives me stomach cramps and the whatever thingys that befriend Chewy when he tosses the one he cooks get on my nerves. Got nothing against Driver but not feeling anything for Kylo and I usually love villain characters. It's ironic that I enjoy more of the side characters in this trilogy than the main ones.

Solo-Well I don't hate it but definitely middle of the road at best.

Rogue One-Loved it. Just re-watched before getting Disney + but planning to watch again soon in 4k DolbyVision. Always been a fan of Donnie Yen and I think they gave him a great role. When I heard he was the fight choreographer, and wanted just bit cameo role, and then saw what they gave him, I actually got choked up at the end.

Mandalorian-Loving it but burnt out on the marketing crap for baby Yoda. Far more to this show than just that.
 

Strelok

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For the prequels I think it can be a state of mind. For whatever reason I tried to start re-watching them again about 2-3 years ago. Didn't make it past ep. 2. Recently got Disney + and watched all in order again in 4k DolbyVision, including TFA. Couldn't do TLJ. My addition to eye candy allowed me to enjoy the run but even that isn't enough to get me thru another sitting of TLJ. That's one I'll need to look for a fan edit or keep the remote handy. Thankfully I've got a disc copy and easy enough to skip thru chapters. I get that it seemed like Rian was somehow trying to re-create the flow and feel of empire but seemed to not get the difference between revealing new story arcs as opposed to shaking it all like a snow globe to create drama.

I still cringe with Jar Jar stuff. I understand what George was trying to do with Padme and Anakin even if it doesn't feel natural. Aside from those issues I like the prequels. Obviously the Jedi/Sith/Jango Fett stuff are my favorite parts. The scene with Obi Wan fighting Jango in the asteroid field is still an audio reference moment for my sound systems. The opening scene for the battle in Revenge of the Sith is high on the list for visuals. I still have the special edition DVD for Phantom Menace with the 2nd disc that has the even more extended pod race. I hated the pod race back then but now is kind of fun. They've all got moments but TLJ has very, very, few. The mary poppins leah moment gives me stomach cramps and the whatever thingys that befriend Chewy when he tosses the one he cooks get on my nerves. Got nothing against Driver but not feeling anything for Kylo and I usually love villain characters. It's ironic that I enjoy more of the side characters in this trilogy than the main ones.

Solo-Well I don't hate it but definitely middle of the road at best.

Rogue One-Loved it. Just re-watched before getting Disney + but planning to watch again soon in 4k DolbyVision. Always been a fan of Donnie Yen and I think they gave him a great role. When I heard he was the fight choreographer, and wanted just bit cameo role, and then saw what they gave him, I actually got choked up at the end.

Mandalorian-Loving it but burnt out on the marketing crap for baby Yoda. Far more to this show than just that.
Keep in mind the DV/HDR on Disney+ is awful, it's not done properly at all. I was rewatching the prequels recently and man, the writing is super cringe worthy at times and the CGI is pretty terrible but overall it was still OK. I can definitely understand why some people really hated them though. I didn't care for the 7th movie and stopped the 8th about 20 minutes in. I'm just going to pretend the latest trilogy doesn't exist, similar to how I pretend GoT ended with season 7.
 

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The prequels aren't horrible in structure. The story line is fine. The issues are mostly with some of the characters. Anakin is too young in Episode I. He's not believable and quite annoying. Jar Jar is just terrible. He shouldn't have been there at all. If he had to be there, he should have been toned down quite a bit. I don't care for the design of the Gungan race either. It's built to be comical and it just doesn't work.

The dialogue is terrible. It was bad in the original trilogy at times too, but the original cast was somehow able to make it work. It fell flat in the prequels. If you minimize Anakin and the Gungan crap in The Phantom Menace, it's decent enough. The immaculate conception angle for Anakin is ****ing stupid too.

Episode II is the worst one in my opinion. The romance stuff is hard to watch and it suffers from pacing issues. Anakin's whining and crying is off putting. I don't know if its just how the actor delivers the lines or what, but I can't stand it. There are some visual things I don't like in it, such as the droid factory scenes. They just look stupid and just don't make any kind of sense. Basically, the beginning and the end are fine. The middle part is what's terrible.

Episode III is almost a good movie. Acting issues aside, I like this movie until the last 15 minutes of it. The Vader Noooooo! scene is just lazy as hell. They ripped off Frankenstein's monster which showed no imagination at all. Personally, I don't think it should have shown Darth Vader at all. Lastly, Padme's death is the most contrived and retarded thing I think I've ever seen. These last few minutes wreck the movie for me. I can still watch the movie, but I almost always turn it off at the end.

Basically, I think the prequels would have been good with a little editing and some minor changes. If I'm nitpicking, I can pull these apart and criticize the **** out of them, but I'm not going to do that at this point. They are masterpieces compared to the **** we are getting now, but given what George supposedly would have done if he had made these, I'm fairly certain while better, we'd have been dissatisfied with his versions too. They would have at least been more coherent if nothing else.

The Disney trilogy is a huge pile of ****. I've written so many posts breaking down why the first two are bad, so I won't bother with that here. They are just terrible. Being bad is generally subjective, but I believe these movies, especially Episode 8 are objectively bad too. If you look at it in any depth at all, the story fails on a number of levels. It does literally everything you shouldn't do in a film or a story. Rey being a Mary Sue is part of t hat. Your villain losing every fight is another, etc. Characters are portrayed inconsistently and legacy characters are too inconsistent with established behavior to reconcile what we see from them on screen.

In short, neither Jar Jar Abrams or Ruins Johnson have any idea what they are doing. Kathleen Kennedy doesn't either, and I hold her primarily accountable for this clusterfuck.
 
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Peter_Brosdahl

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Keep in mind the DV/HDR on Disney+ is awful, it's not done properly at all.
Yeah I've noticed some bizarre extremes. Watched them on our new LG C9 65" and figured if OLED can't fully reproduce blacks/brightness the fault is more on their end. Overall though I think it looks better than my Blu-Ray Copies. The originals really pop but unfortunately it does expose the digital limitations of effects for the prequels. Some parts aged o.k., others not so much. My only real complaint is that the DNR is pretty heavy. That actually probably affects some of the HDR stuff.
 

Peter_Brosdahl

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The prequels aren't horrible in structure. The story line is fine. The issues are mostly with some of the characters. Anakin is too young in Episode I. He's not believable and quite annoying. Jar Jar is just terrible. He shouldn't have been there at all. He should have been toned down quite a bit. I don't care for the design of the Gungan race either. It's built to be comical and it just doesn't work.

The dialogue is terrible. It was bad in the original trilogy at times too, but the original cast was somehow able to make it work. It fell flat in the prequels. If you minimize Anakin and the Gungan crap in The Phantom Menace, it's decent enough. The immaculate conception angle for Anakin is ****ing stupid too.

Episode II is the worst one in my opinion. The romance stuff is hard to watch and it suffers from pacing issues. Anakin's whining and crying is off putting. I don't know if its just how the actor delivers the lines or what, but I can't stand it. There are some visual things I don't like in it, such as the droid factory scenes. They just look stupid and just don't make any kind of sense. Basically, the beginning and the end are fine. The middle part is what's terrible.

Episode III is almost a good movie. Acting issues aside, I like this movie until the last 15 minutes of it. The Vader Noooooo! scene is just lazy as hell. They ripped off Frankenstein's monster which showed no imagination at all. Personally, I don't think it should have shown Darth Vader at all. Lastly, Padme's death is the most contrived and retarded thing I think I've ever seen. These last few minutes wreck the movie for me. I can still watch the movie, but I almost always turn it off at the end.

Basically, I think the prequels would have been good with a little editing and some minor changes. If I'm nitpicking, I can pull these apart and criticize the **** out of them, but I'm not going to do that at this point. They are masterpieces compared to the **** we are getting now, but given what George supposedly would have done if he had made these, I'm fairly certain while better, we'd have been dissatisfied with his versions too. They would have at least been more coherent if nothing else.

The Disney trilogy is a huge pile of ****. I've written so many posts breaking down why the first two are bad, so I won't bother with that here. They are just terrible. Being bad is generally subjective, but I believe these movies, especially Episode 8 is objectively bad too. If you look at it in any depth at all, the story fails on a number of levels. It does literally everything you shouldn't do in a film or a story. Rey being a Mary Sue is part of t hat. Your villain losing every fight is another, etc. Characters are portrayed inconsistently and legacy characters are too inconsistent with established behavior to reconcile what we see from them on screen.

In short, neither Jar Jar Abrams or Ruins Johnson have any idea what they are doing. Kathleen Kennedy doesn't either, and I hold her primarily accountable for this clusterfuck.
Have to agree with you on all points. I tend to force myself to be more optimistic/subjective. In the end though, if you polish a turd . . .

"Jar Jar Abrams" :ROFLMAO:
 

SmokeRngs

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I've known since I first start Episode 8 that the prequels were better. Despite all the major and massive flaws in Episode 7 there was still promise especially if they filled in many of the blanks left from Episode 7 and did a good job continuing the story. Since none of that happened and Episode 8 was complete trash it was obvious the new movies no matter what were worse.

However, I don't know that the newer movies would have been any better under George Lucas. I don't remember if it was an interview I watched or read but based on what he said (if it was an actual interview with him) any new movies done by him wouldn't have really been anything about Star Wars. For whatever reason he has an unhealthy fascination with midichlorians and his ideas for new Star Wars movies were about midichlorians. That is some seriously messed up stuff there.

The fact is that George Lucas screwed up the prequels pretty badly in my opinion. That was my opinion when they came out and it's still my opinion now. One of the biggest issues is child Anakin. Child Anakin was a horrible idea and it was absolutely nothing we needed to see. For me, the only redeeming features of Episode 1 are Qui-gon Jin, some of the fights and the visuals. Those are the only reasons I ever re-watch Episode 1.

Personally, I think Episode 1 should have started out at the end of the real Clone Wars, not the Galactic Civil War crap we got. At the end of the Clone Wars we would have had an adult Anakin. A great starfighter pilot, an amazing Jedi Knight and a good friend to Obi-wan. The movie would have been nothing but the story of "good" Anakin being everything Obi-wan said he was and showing him as the hero he was. However, he would have been war-weary like the rest of the beat to hell Republic and Jedi. Simply due to the war weariness he would have made some questionable choices regarding uses of the Force and expedients to win battles. In one case he would have used dark side methods in order to save people. He's still a hero in doing what he does but it shows he's more than willing to skate the edge of Jedi rules or even break them when he feels it's necessary. Basically he starts down the road to Hell being paved with good intentions. In this specific rescue he saves a young woman (not Padme) who eventually becomes the mother to Luke and Leia. That's just a general outline of what I would like to have seen for Episode 1 but it boils down to presenting Anakin as the hero everyone loves with a little bit of dark side foreshadowing. If some of the general outline sounds familiar it's probably because you're familiar with the Revan story since it definitely borrows from that a bit.

Episode 2 would be a few years or so later and the Republic still dealing with the aftermath of the Clone Wars. I don't have many specifics in mind but the backdrop would be how the Republic was falling apart after the horrific losses and destruction brought about by the Clone Wars. During this time the Jedi, including Anakin, would be scrambling to help hold things together. In doing so Anakin would be dabbling more and more into the dark side to achieve the ends he wanted. I have no specifics in mind but I think it would definitely include Force persuasion to keep people/governments in line and probably an assassination or two. During this time period his relationship with said young woman from the previous movie would continue (having started in the time period between the movies). Obviously they would have to keep it secret (except from Anakin's closest friends such as Obi-wan) but with all the missions he was continually going on it would give them plenty of time out of sight of Republic officials and the Jedi Council. And she sure as hell wouldn't be a goddamn queen or Senator who would have always been in the public eye. During this time would be the rise of Senator Palpatine as a leading force in holding the Republic together. In my version of the movies the evil Sith Lord isn't an all knowing and unbeatable genius outsmarting everyone in the galaxy but a very smart evil Sith Lord taking advantage of the situation and manipulating it for his own benefit like he's supposed to do. General basis for this movie would be Anakin's unintended and unrealized slide to the dark side with a side helping of Palpatine gaining power.

Episode 3 would take place not long after Episode 2. Despite all the efforts of the Republic government and the Jedi the Republic falls apart and a civil was has begun during the time between movies. During this time the already weak Jedi are mostly wiped out. Many of them killed in battles but plenty of them killed by agents of Palpatine to remove the main obstacle of his ability to seize power and rule. Anakin manages to hold onto his areas of Republic and keep them in line but with continually harsher and harsher measures. At this point he knows his methods are wrong but uses them anyway as a means of keeping the Republic together and Palpatine encourages him to do so in the name of effectiveness. Since the Jedi order is effectively wiped out and the few who are left are too busy with their own duties there is no one to pull Anakin back from the path he's on. At some point during this, Anakin's wife/girlfriend becomes pregnant. He's not told this due to the stress he's under and by the time she can tell him she's afraid of the changes in Anakin and refuses to say anything. As the Jedi Order is effectively destroyed, Palpatine takes supreme command of the Republic using the loss of the Jedi as the reason in order to consolidate power efficiently. With the support of Anakin and much of the remaining war weary Republic Palpatine initiates a ruthless campaign to crush resistance to the Republic government after an attack on Coruscant which seemingly kills Anakin's wife/girlfriend. However, she survives somehow and is rescued by Obi-wan as Anakin isn't around for whatever reason. She then tells Obi-wan of Anakin's move to the dark side and he gets her away from Coruscant for her protection. Palpatine's campaign quickly crushes the other side of the civil war. Since a single, strong figure was required to end the war and as a way to avoid new wars Palpatine has himself declared Emperor and the Galactic Empire is born to replace the failed Republic and the destroyed Jedi Order. Knowing the Republic has fallen and the Jedi Order is wiped out the remaining Jedi go into hiding to avoid the now revealed evil Sith Lord Palpatine and the Jedi he turned to the dark side. Obi-wan convinces Anakin to meet him away from Coruscant in an attempt to sway him back to the light side. Anakin insists that since the Jedi failed to keep order that the Sith are the new protectors and he will stay with Palpatine. Battle ensues between the two but without the horrid dialogue ("I have the high ground" and "Only the Sith deal in absolutes" for example) and Anakin is defeated and half burned by lava somehow. Obi-wan leaves him to his fate and joins Anakin's ex-wife/ex-girlfriend on Alderaan where she gives birth to twins. The Organas adopt Leia to be raised as their daughter with the mother staying there in seclusion to help raise her and Luke is taken to Tatooine to be raised in seclusion there by his uncle Owen Lars with Obi-wan hanging around to keep an eye on Luke.

As an afterward, Luke and Leia's mother dies a few years later and that's how Leia has some vague memories of their mother. The End
 

Nanobot

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Star Wars is a space opera written for kids. Literally. Lucas has stated this repeatedly. Whatever we as a adults might have appreciated in Star Wars when we were younger, our minds don't work the same way as a 12 year old. It's not surprising to hear so many adults complain about the latest round of movies but the outcry for the prequels was just as bad. Time will tell how episodes 7-9 age. I predict ep. 9 will do a lot better at the theaters than 8 did, replicating the pattern of the previous trilogies.
 

Brian_B

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I'm not huge into the SW lore. I like the movies, I'm usually into SciFi stuff. I didn't like the prequels much at all, and I actually like the sequels just fine. They don't quite stand up to the original three movies, and I don't think they are Billion dollar Box Office worthy, but aren't bad. I'd rather see Firefly come back, but you get what you get. I don't feel bad watching them on Disney+ or Netflix (when they were there), but they aren't MUST SEE theater spends for me.

My wife is (or maybe, was) a Star Wars fan. HUGE. I can't tell what color my walls are for all the SW posters and memorabilia she has up. She has a __JEDI__ vanity license plate. She was crying coming out of the theater from #7. She tolerated the prequels, but absolutely cannot stand the sequels, and hates that they dumped all the novels. She goes in with an immediate dislike of anything done by Disney. Han is her favorite character in the story, and she wouldn't even watch Solo. After #7, she boycotted #8 and only watched it because I was watching it on Netflix one day. She does want to see #9 in the theater though - I think for a sense of finale and closure more than anything else.
 

Dan_D

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Star Wars is a space opera written for kids. Literally. Lucas has stated this repeatedly. Whatever we as a adults might have appreciated in Star Wars when we were younger, our minds don't work the same way as a 12 year old. It's not surprising to hear so many adults complain about the latest round of movies but the outcry for the prequels was just as bad. Time will tell how episodes 7-9 age. I predict ep. 9 will do a lot better at the theaters than 8 did, replicating the pattern of the previous trilogies.
He has stated this repeatedly in response to the criticisms he received for Episode 1, 2, and 3. As far as I know, he never once said that anywhere near the days when Episodes 4-6 were new. The outcry about the prequels was there, but it wasn't nearly as bad as it is now. As far as how these films will age I can predict that easily. They won't age well at all. The movies are structurally bad. From a narrative perspective, they do everything wrong. They aren't coherent or follow any internal consistency, much less maintain consistency with prior films. On top of that, the identity politics injected into them will seriously date them. In ten years, no one will care about this ****. They'll be outraged about something else. These films will not age well, nor be remembered in a positive light.

I don't even think they'll be able to bank on the nostalgia of children who are growing up with them. They might, but my guess is they'll age about as well as Thundercats did for me. (It wasn't good.)

I've known since I first start Episode 8 that the prequels were better. Despite all the major and massive flaws in Episode 7 there was still promise especially if they filled in many of the blanks left from Episode 7 and did a good job continuing the story.
I've got to stop you right there. This is simply untrue. They did not do a good job continuing the story. Here's why.................

Soft Remake of Episode IV
This one is obvious. It's way too close to Episode IV. Even if we can accept that some things are cyclical in nature, its a bit on the ridiculous side to make the two films so close. Episode I actually follows the formula of Return of the Jedi, but manages to mask the similarities far better.

Rey is a Mary Sue.
Rey is a Mary Sue This fact has become more obvious with each installment, but she's a badly written character. Here are some examples of what I mean:
  • Rey beats up men twice her size with no mention of any training. Fin is a trained Stormtrooper, and First Order troopers are generally shown to be more effective and better equipped/trained than their Imperial counterparts. Yet, Fin is weak and ineffective in her presence. Even if he was the worst Stormtrooper the First Order had to offer, he shouldn't have needed rescue by her on Jaku.
  • Rey has never flown a space craft of any kind before. Yet, she's able to fly the Millennium Falcon with as much or greater skill than we've ever seen from Han Solo. If she had been a trained pilot and Force user, I wouldn't have had a problem with this. However, like everything else she does in the film, this isn't earned. It breaks any sense of immersion and suspension of disbelief. It's a cool sequence, but it doesn't make sense for her to have done it.
  • Once she meets Han, she's able to show him up on his own vessel and repair it better than he can. This is a ship that he's owned and lived on for decades, and neither he nor Chewbacca figured out what was wrong, but she did. This is also unbelievable because a scrapper is not a trained starship mechanic. I can pull a rear end out of a 4th generation Camaro at a Junk yard, but that's a far cry from being able to rebuild one. Even with some direction or guess work, I understand it enough to probably make a decent go of it, but there is no way I'd be able to do it better than someone who's been doing it for decades. Again, her character does something she shouldn't be able to do that isn't earned.
  • Who could forget her besting Kylo Ren, a trained Jedi Knight and wielder of the Dark Side of the Force. Even with the injury he sustained, Rey should have gotten her *** kicked badly. The injury could have leveled the field a bit, but it should still have been a decisive victory for Kylo. It would have given Rey something to overcome and grow from in subsequent movies. But no, character arcs are for dudes apparently. Women don't need them because they don't need no man.
Miscellaneous
  • Fin needs saving from regular dudes on Jaku. Again, he's a trained Stormtrooper. It's heavily implied that their training isn't traditional and that they are some how abducted and brainwashed. This would make them more effective. Again, even if he were a bad one, he'd still be able to fight against random *** scrappers.
  • Phasma's hatred for Fin is never explored in any meaningful way.
  • Luke, Han and Leia are never seen on screen together. After 30 years, this is a huge missed opportunity.
  • Maz Kanada has Anakin's / Luke's old lightsaber. For those who don't remember, Bespin is a gas giant. While not the size of Jupiter as far as we can tell, a hand and lightsaber falling into it would likely make it unrecoverable. So, how did it get there? Who would have known to recover it? Why would they recover it? Vader is the only likely candidate, but even that's a stretch. I can't see him spending the time or resources to recover something that would remind him of his old self and all his failures. These objects would have fallen towards the planet's center, so they'd likely be crushed or damaged / destroyed by weather etc.
Too Much Fan Service without Substance
This is harder to quantify. We see Lightsaber battles, the Falcon and some of the classic characters. Unfortunately, none of these things are really used correctly. The visual elements are clearly put there by someone who doesn't understand their use.

Characters are Underutilized
Outside of Rey, who is the bestest at everything evar, the rest of the characters are actually decent, but do not get utilized properly. Po is barely in the movie. Fin's there, but he's more like a piece of furniture. His story with Captain Phasma could have been something. His story as an abducted and brainwashed trooper could have gone somewhere unique. It didn't.

Starkiller Base is Stupid.
This one is a bit on the complicated side, but hear me out. So, spoiler alert, this is the planet Ilum. Starkiller base is a massive engineering project that needed a lot of explanation to be taken seriously as a plot device. We've had to wait several years and play a tie in video game to understand this point. A film like this should stand on its own with enough plot filled in to keep the suspension of disbelief going. The base is a stupid idea in the first place and I'll get to. Surprise, Starkiller base is actually a product of strip mining Ilum for Kyber crystals. This started back in the Imperial days. For those who don't know, Ilum is a sacred world where Jedi acquired their lightsaber crystals is mined for weapons manufacturing by the Empire for projects like the Death Star. For some reason, the First Order decided to make a Death Star like weapon out of the planet. Which brings me to a whole other bag of problems.....

One, the idea that shooting several planets in the same system would be enough to end the New Republic, is laughable at best. Even as a relatively new government with problems the Empire didn't have, it wouldn't be eliminated through a single system's destruction. Even if you took out Washington DC, you wouldn't eliminate the entire U.S. Government. Why would a galaxy wide government put all its eggs in one basket...er system? It makes zero sense. Starkiller base also destroys several planets which all appear to be within the same system. This makes little sense as planets tend to need to be in a certain zone to be habitable. These planets were in the same system, but its hard to believe that a single system has four or five planets that are all habitable and that close together. That's the most minor of issues, but I still thought about it. The Starkiller base beam also comes from a single large emitter, but breaks up like like it hit a prism? This makes no sense. If the prism were in the emitter, it would break up immediately. If it weren't, what exactly splits the beam and directs it to each target at the end of their journey?

More problems arise when you consider that Ilum is in the unknown regions of the galaxy. The New Republic system that gets destroyed would likely be in the core worlds. This would require any stationary weapon to be able to launch projectiles through Hyperspace. For a beam, this makes even less sense. Even more retarded is the fact that it supposedly requires a star to power it. That star is drained and disappears. Well, believe it or not, this is as retarded as the ships in Episode 8 suddenly drifting when they run out of fuel. Powering the weapon via a star isn't by itself stupid. It's actually sensible. What isn't is the base obviously pulling mass from the star. Once a certain amount has been pulled, the star would enter a red giant phase or simply go super nova. That would destroy the planet and wipe out the system. Yet, in the movie the First Order has assets on the planet in a big Nazi'esque speech scene. Star killer base is still perfectly intact after the firing. This makes no sense either. You wouldn't even need to worry about it as its fuel supply would be exhausted. It's a one shot weapon for two reasons. 1.) It consumes the star. 2.) It's stationary. We saw no evidence of FTL engines on the base, so WTF?

It's also stupid to pour so many resources into turning a planet into a Death Star when they could have just put a Death Star laser on Snoke's flagship. That would have made tons more sense and accomplished the same thing. Starkiller Base is really a flash over substance idea. When questioned, the concept falls apart. It's clear its just meant to be a new Death Star that's bigger and badder. In reality, it's dumb as hell.

The Political Climate Makes No Sense (New Republic is ineffective and stupid.)
This one is something that I could go on about for quite awhile. In the film, the New Republic is basically stated as being unwilling to enter into open war with the First Order. This means that the New Republic became aware of the First Order after it was too late. The First Order is conquering systems and marauding around the Galaxy and their plan involves supplying X-Wings and New Republic assets to a new Resistance movement. The First Order is a remnant or evolution of the very thing that the Rebel Alliance to Restore the Republic fought against. Yet, the New Republic isn't going to put its best foot forward on that? The whole thing is contrived nonsense. It's also stupid that the New Republic never found out about the First Order, it's build up or its Planet McGuffin. The failures are too numerous to be believed. Suspension of disbelief goes right out the window once again.

The First Order is Dumb
The First Order, in concept isn't bad by itself. It's just woefully mishandled in terms of its execution. In the beginning of the film, we don't get a sense that its larger than the Empire, or nearly as big. Until we see planet McGuffin, there is no reason to think its so large. That's how it should have stayed. A role reversal of a smaller, smarter Empire trying to regain its foothold on the Galaxy would have made for a better and more believable story. The fact that the First Order was allowed to get so big without anyone knowing it is beyond ridiculous. I get that the New Republic annihilating the Imperial Remnant wasn't high on its list of priorities. but in the early days the New Republic would have been fragile and it would have had to have kept tabs on things like the Empire to make sure that they were aware of any threats. Also, a big fleet, massive construction and the manpower involved would have been noticed. You couldn't have the kind of personnel traveling to that part of the galaxy without someone taking note of it.

The Assassination of Classic Characters
While this is a bigger problem for episode 8, we see problems showing here. Everyone's looking to Luke to save them, but he's checked out and run off to become a hermit. This doesn't make any sense and from the start it seems like bullshit. Luke never gave up even in the face of overwhelming adversity. This is a character that's lost nearly everyone he's ever cared about. Sometimes in front of him. Yet, he's always bucked up and gotten on with what needed to be done. He has a spirit of never quitting and improving himself. Becoming what he needed to be to overcome challenges. The bullshit with his character started in Episode 7. Even what we know of him here is totally out of alignment with what we know of him. Many of us fans grew up watching this character. Reading books and comics about him or interacting with or playing as him in games. You can't take a character that's so deeply imbeeded in popular culture and get it so wrong. R2 is more or less treated the same way. He's shut down for reasons.........The Resistance treats him like furniture. It makes no sense.

Episode 8 is a **** Sandwich
Episode 8 is an even bigger clusterfuck. I won't even go there right now. But the foundation it was built on was largely ****, and Rian "Round Head" Johnson not only managed to make his film worse, but make it so bad that it makes Episode 7 and 9 worse than they would have otherwise been if properly followed up on or written. It's truly staggering how bad Episode 8 is. Anything connected to it is retroactively or henceforth going to be trash. This is what happens when identity politics and subverting expectations by making a film unpredictable are your primary goals. **** telling a cohesive and competently executed story.

You guys can watch this bullshit sequel if you want to. But I'm not giving them anymore money until they figure out how to do Star Wars the right way. So far, the Mandalorian and Rogue One are the only things Disney did right since acquiring Lucasfilm. Not that they are perfect, but these two things actually feel like Star Wars. Not some bullshit Fan Fiction. That last part is one of the biggest problems. While everything looks correct, it's not. There is no hero's journey. This should have been the Skywalker Saga, and it isn't. The only Skywalker's in the last trilogy are weak, ineffective, bumbling and dead.

So no, Episode 7 does NOT do a good job of continuing the story. Not by a long shot.
 
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ThreeDee

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The sequels .. the directors don't seem to get Star Wars ... The Marvel guy .. He seems to "get" Star Wars.

Loved Rogue One too.

..and Jar Jar is a Jedi .. just throwing that out there :sneaky:
 

SmokeRngs

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He has stated this repeatedly in response to the criticisms he received for Episode 1, 2, and 3. As far as I know, he never once said that anywhere near the days when Episodes 4-6 were new. The outcry about the prequels was there, but it wasn't nearly as bad as it is now. As far as how these films will age I can predict that easily. They won't age well at all. The movies are structurally bad. From a narrative perspective, they do everything wrong. They aren't coherent or follow any internal consistency, much less maintain consistency with prior films. On top of that, the identity politics injected into them will seriously date them. In ten years, no one will care about this ****. They'll be outraged about something else. These films will not age well, nor be remembered in a positive light.

I don't even think they'll be able to bank on the nostalgia of children who are growing up with them. They might, but my guess is they'll age about as well as Thundercats did for me. (It wasn't good.)



I've got to stop you right there. This is simply untrue. They did not do a good job continuing the story. Here's why.................

Soft Remake of Episode IV
This one is obvious. It's way too close to Episode IV. Even if we can accept that some things are cyclical in nature, its a bit on the ridiculous side to make the two films so close. Episode I actually follows the formula of Return of the Jedi, but manages to mask the similarities far better.

Rey is a Mary Sue.
Rey is a Mary Sue This fact has become more obvious with each installment, but she's a badly written character. Here are some examples of what I mean:
  • Rey beats up men twice her size with no mention of any training. Fin is a trained Stormtrooper, and First Order troopers are generally shown to be more effective and better equipped/trained than their Imperial counterparts. Yet, Fin is weak and ineffective in her presence. Even if he was the worst Stormtrooper the First Order had to offer, he shouldn't have needed rescue by her on Jaku.
  • Rey has never flown a space craft of any kind before. Yet, she's able to fly the Millennium Falcon with as much or greater skill than we've ever seen from Han Solo. If she had been a trained pilot and Force user, I wouldn't have had a problem with this. However, like everything else she does in the film, this isn't earned. It breaks any sense of immersion and suspension of disbelief. It's a cool sequence, but it doesn't make sense for her to have done it.
  • Once she meets Han, she's able to show him up on his own vessel and repair it better than he can. This is a ship that he's owned and lived on for decades, and neither he nor Chewbacca figured out what was wrong, but she did. This is also unbelievable because a scrapper is not a trained starship mechanic. I can pull a rear end out of a 4th generation Camaro at a Junk yard, but that's a far cry from being able to rebuild one. Even with some direction or guess work, I understand it enough to probably make a decent go of it, but there is no way I'd be able to do it better than someone who's been doing it for decades. Again, her character does something she shouldn't be able to do that isn't earned.
  • Who could forget her besting Kylo Ren, a trained Jedi Knight and wielder of the Dark Side of the Force. Even with the injury he sustained, Rey should have gotten her *** kicked badly. The injury could have leveled the field a bit, but it should still have been a decisive victory for Kylo. It would have given Rey something to overcome and grow from in subsequent movies. But no, character arcs are for dudes apparently. Women don't need them because they don't need no man.
Miscellaneous
  • Fin needs saving from regular dudes on Jaku. Again, he's a trained Stormtrooper. It's heavily implied that their training isn't traditional and that they are some how abducted and brainwashed. This would make them more effective. Again, even if he were a bad one, he'd still be able to fight against random *** scrappers.
  • Phasma's hatred for Fin is never explored in any meaningful way.
  • Luke, Han and Leia are never seen on screen together. After 30 years, this is a huge missed opportunity.
  • Maz Kanada has Anakin's / Luke's old lightsaber. For those who don't remember, Bespin is a gas giant. While not the size of Jupiter as far as we can tell, a hand and lightsaber falling into it would likely make it unrecoverable. So, how did it get there? Who would have known to recover it? Why would they recover it? Vader is the only likely candidate, but even that's a stretch. I can't see him spending the time or resources to recover something that would remind him of his old self and all his failures. These objects would have fallen towards the planet's center, so they'd likely be crushed or damaged / destroyed by weather etc.
Too Much Fan Service without Substance
This is harder to quantify. We see Lightsaber battles, the Falcon and some of the classic characters. Unfortunately, none of these things are really used correctly. The visual elements are clearly put there by someone who doesn't understand their use.

Characters are Underutilized
Outside of Rey, who is the bestest at everything evar, the rest of the characters are actually decent, but do not get utilized properly. Po is barely in the movie. Fin's there, but he's more like a piece of furniture. His story with Captain Phasma could have been something. His story as an abducted and brainwashed trooper could have gone somewhere unique. It didn't.

Starkiller Base is Stupid.
This one is a bit on the complicated side, but hear me out. So, spoiler alert, this is the planet Ilum. Starkiller base is a massive engineering project that needed a lot of explanation to be taken seriously as a plot device. We've had to wait several years and play a tie in video game to understand this point. A film like this should stand on its own with enough plot filled in to keep the suspension of disbelief going. The base is a stupid idea in the first place and I'll get to. Surprise, Starkiller base is actually a product of strip mining Ilum for Kyber crystals. This started back in the Imperial days. For those who don't know, Ilum is a sacred world where Jedi acquired their lightsaber crystals is mined for weapons manufacturing by the Empire for projects like the Death Star. For some reason, the First Order decided to make a Death Star like weapon out of the planet. Which brings me to a whole other bag of problems.....

One, the idea that shooting several planets in the same system would be enough to end the New Republic, is laughable at best. Even as a relatively new government with problems the Empire didn't have, it wouldn't be eliminated through a single system's destruction. Even if you took out Washington DC, you wouldn't eliminate the entire U.S. Government. Why would a galaxy wide government put all its eggs in one basket...er system? It makes zero sense. Starkiller base also destroys several planets which all appear to be within the same system. This makes little sense as planets tend to need to be in a certain zone to be habitable. These planets were in the same system, but its hard to believe that a single system has four or five planets that are all habitable and that close together. That's the most minor of issues, but I still thought about it. The Starkiller base beam also comes from a single large emitter, but breaks up like like it hit a prism? This makes no sense. If the prism were in the emitter, it would break up immediately. If it weren't, what exactly splits the beam and directs it to each target at the end of their journey?

More problems arise when you consider that Ilum is in the unknown regions of the galaxy. The New Republic system that gets destroyed would likely be in the core worlds. This would require any stationary weapon to be able to launch projectiles through Hyperspace. For a beam, this makes even less sense. Even more retarded is the fact that it supposedly requires a star to power it. That star is drained and disappears. Well, believe it or not, this is as retarded as the ships in Episode 8 suddenly drifting when they run out of fuel. Powering the weapon via a star isn't by itself stupid. It's actually sensible. What isn't is the base obviously pulling mass from the star. Once a certain amount has been pulled, the star would enter a red giant phase or simply go super nova. That would destroy the planet and wipe out the system. Yet, in the movie the First Order has assets on the planet in a big Nazi'esque speech scene. Star killer base is still perfectly intact after the firing. This makes no sense either. You wouldn't even need to worry about it as its fuel supply would be exhausted. It's a one shot weapon for two reasons. 1.) It consumes the star. 2.) It's stationary. We saw no evidence of FTL engines on the base, so WTF?

It's also stupid to pour so many resources into turning a planet into a Death Star when they could have just put a Death Star laser on Snoke's flagship. That would have made tons more sense and accomplished the same thing. Starkiller Base is really a flash over substance idea. When questioned, the concept falls apart. It's clear its just meant to be a new Death Star that's bigger and badder. In reality, it's dumb as hell.

The Political Climate Makes No Sense (New Republic is ineffective and stupid.)
This one is something that I could go on about for quite awhile. In the film, the New Republic is basically stated as being unwilling to enter into open war with the First Order. This means that the New Republic became aware of the First Order after it was too late. The First Order is conquering systems and marauding around the Galaxy and their plan involves supplying X-Wings and New Republic assets to a new Resistance movement. The First Order is a remnant or evolution of the very thing that the Rebel Alliance to Restore the Republic fought against. Yet, the New Republic isn't going to put its best foot forward on that? The whole thing is contrived nonsense. It's also stupid that the New Republic never found out about the First Order, it's build up or its Planet McGuffin. The failures are too numerous to be believed. Suspension of disbelief goes right out the window once again.

The First Order is Dumb
The First Order, in concept isn't bad by itself. It's just woefully mishandled in terms of its execution. In the beginning of the film, we don't get a sense that its larger than the Empire, or nearly as big. Until we see planet McGuffin, there is no reason to think its so large. That's how it should have stayed. A role reversal of a smaller, smarter Empire trying to regain its foothold on the Galaxy would have made for a better and more believable story. The fact that the First Order was allowed to get so big without anyone knowing it is beyond ridiculous. I get that the New Republic annihilating the Imperial Remnant wasn't high on its list of priorities. but in the early days the New Republic would have been fragile and it would have had to have kept tabs on things like the Empire to make sure that they were aware of any threats. Also, a big fleet, massive construction and the manpower involved would have been noticed. You couldn't have the kind of personnel traveling to that part of the galaxy without someone taking note of it.

The Assassination of Classic Characters
While this is a bigger problem for episode 8, we see problems showing here. Everyone's looking to Luke to save them, but he's checked out and run off to become a hermit. This doesn't make any sense and from the start it seems like bullshit. Luke never gave up even in the face of overwhelming adversity. This is a character that's lost nearly everyone he's ever cared about. Sometimes in front of him. Yet, he's always bucked up and gotten on with what needed to be done. He has a spirit of never quitting and improving himself. Becoming what he needed to be to overcome challenges. The bullshit with his character started in Episode 7. Even what we know of him here is totally out of alignment with what we know of him. Many of us fans grew up watching this character. Reading books and comics about him or interacting with or playing as him in games. You can't take a character that's so deeply imbeeded in popular culture and get it so wrong. R2 is more or less treated the same way. He's shut down for reasons.........The Resistance treats him like furniture. It makes no sense.

Episode 8 is a **** Sandwich
Episode 8 is an even bigger clusterfuck. I won't even go there right now. But the foundation it was built on was largely ****, and Rian "Round Head" Johnson not only managed to make his film worse, but make it so bad that it makes Episode 7 and 9 worse than they would have otherwise been if properly followed up on or written. It's truly staggering how bad Episode 8 is. Anything connected to it is retroactively or henceforth going to be trash. This is what happens when identity politics and subverting expectations by making a film unpredictable are your primary goals. **** telling a cohesive and competently executed story.

You guys can watch this bullshit sequel if you want to. But I'm not giving them anymore money until they figure out how to do Star Wars the right way. So far, the Mandalorian and Rogue One are the only things Disney did right since acquiring Lucasfilm. Not that they are perfect, but these two things actually feel like Star Wars. Not some bullshit Fan Fiction. That last part is one of the biggest problems. While everything looks correct, it's not. There is no hero's journey. This should have been the Skywalker Saga, and it isn't. The only Skywalker's in the last trilogy are weak, ineffective, bumbling and dead.

So no, Episode 7 does NOT do a good job of continuing the story. Not by a long shot.
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. My statement was meant to be read that if Episode 8 had actually continued the story from 7 and filled in the blanks of many things which were missing from 7 it could have been decent. The problem is that Episode 8 ignored Episode 7 and went off and did its own thing instead of trying to fix issues from 7 and continue the story.

There were massive issues with 7 and I've talked about them before. On its own Episode 7 is in I don't really care territory because of the issues. However, I could have overlooked those issues if 8 had come along and "fixed" some of the issues, especially regarding characters. Instead Episode 8 didn't bother to shore up Episode 7 and went on to make even worse errors and plot holes. I said it before and I'll say it again. Episode 7 had plot holes you could drive a Death Star through. However, Episode 8 had plot holes you could drive a galaxy through and ignored the fact it was supposed to be a continuation of 7 and was a one off solo movie but using characters from 7.

I was never once talking about the Episode 7 being the continuation of the story. The story wasn't good and they screwed up a lot of stuff which is amazing since even a mediocre movie and story should have been an instant hit.

When I left the theater after watching Episode 7 I had no issues discussing possible plot points for the next movie. I did exactly that with my son and his friend. When leaving the theater after seeing Episode 8 there wasn't anything to talk about.
 

Dan_D

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I would agree that as bad as Episode 7 was, Episode 8 could have worked if it did a good job continuing where 7 left off.
 

Niner51

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I agree with Episode 8 being disappointing. I grew up watching the original film back in 1977 (yes I'm old), and even though I agree with these latest releases being subpar, they aren't horrible. Looking back at those older movies made me realize they weren't perfect either but I enjoy them for what they are. We are living in different times now where I think we all expect (maybe we're spoiled) near perfection.
I do miss the how the old movies would pick up where the previous one ended or at least explain in the opening what had happened to get us where we currently are.
I am still looking forward to the new movie and I hope they end the saga on a high note.
 

Dan_D

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I agree with Episode 8 being disappointing. I grew up watching the original film back in 1977 (yes I'm old), and even though I agree with these latest releases being subpar, they aren't horrible. Looking back at those older movies made me realize they weren't perfect either but I enjoy them for what they are. We are living in different times now where I think we all expect (maybe we're spoiled) near perfection.
I do miss the how the old movies would pick up where the previous one ended or at least explain in the opening what had happened to get us where we currently are.
I am still looking forward to the new movie and I hope they end the saga on a high note.
There have been a ton of confirmed leaks about the plot. I fear you are in for a significant disappointment despite you being far more positive and kind to the new trilogy than it deserves.
 
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