This is how badly Intel screwed itself over

LazyGamer said:
If ASML machines aren't putting out, won't TSMC run up against the same issues?
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I think it's not just about the machines. It's more about passionate people wanting to do their best. I don't know what kind of culture Intel fabs have but I have read that at TSMC, almost everyone on the fab floor is a PhD with expertise in some area that helps TSMC be the best. Unlike Intel, they have never rested on their laurels. They take their commitment to their customers more seriously than death itself.
 
My observations suggest that AMD and Intel are following two different ways of designing chips.

AMD: Going about their business in a calm but determined manner. Iteratively refining their designs. They are focusing on smaller but deliverable IPC improvements.

Intel: They have been working hysterically in panic mode since Rocket Lake. All their engineers can think about is how to leapfrog AMD's designs in one fell swoop. This kind of reckless thinking is causing them to take bigger risks and they keep falling flat on their faces.

I would LOVE to knock on Pat's coconut and ask him, why in the hell did you think it was a good idea to:

Not have 12 P-cores only Alder Lake/Raptor Lake halo part?

Not have a monolithic version of Meteor Lake/Arrow Lake in case things didn't pan out the way they were hoping?

Have separate core designs for consumer and server chips when everyone had seen how successful AMD had been with their server first design approach and then trickling fundamentally the same design down to consumer chips since 2018?

Not have SMT enabled in their E-cores when AMD did enable that in their c cores? (I do know the answer to this. The E-core chip architect Stephen Robinson thinks SMT makes zero sense for consumers. Frickin' Nazi!)

Not instruct engineers strictly to start work on enabling AVX-512 in post Raptor Lake consumer chips when Rocket Lake had it and the competition has it?

Not release quad channel HEDT platform featuring slightly more expensive Raptor/Arrow Lake chips to get a leg up on the competition?
 
@igor_kavinski your post is interesting. I recall when the amd and Intel positions had been swapped. When AMD was always scrambling until Lisa Sue came along and took some steady state deep risks and gave the cpu teams time to mature their tech fully.
 

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My calculations seem to suggest:

Modest 13% IPC increase with at least 20% higher frequency boost.
At least 6.5 GHz frequency AND/OR a much more efficient SMT implementation.

This can only be Zen 6.

Intel can kiss its goose goodbye because 6.5 GHz is going to cook it REALLY good!
 
I'm honestly not sure if Intel even cares about the traditional x86 space anymore. To me, it seems like they're all in on mobile offerings now, at least when it comes to consumer parts. I've yet to have the privilege of a high-end AMD laptop but I can say that I've been happy with every Intel-based gaming laptop purchased, about a half dozen since 2010, although I did try to order some AMD ones only for them to be cancelled.
 
I spent quality time with a Ryzen 5825U HP Aero laptop. Tortured its iGPU with 4K benchmarks. The fan noise was minimal and not once did the laptop lock up. And it was so light that it felt like a cheap plastic toy laptop. The person I bought it for has yet to complain. I was very impressed, at least with that particular chip.
 
The problem with the 'desktop' space is that... most of that is ordered by the big three OEMs, and desktop CPUs are basically a commodity. As in, it doesn't even matter which one is 'better', it's which one fits their requirements and they can get the best deal on.

To that end, for corporate desktops, Intel is plenty experienced in 'checking the boxes'.

But for enthusiasts, especially gamers... they've been missing the mark, and I think they know it.
 
LazyGamer said:
The problem with the 'desktop' space is that... most of that is ordered by the big three OEMs, and desktop CPUs are basically a commodity. As in, it doesn't even matter which one is 'better', it's which one fits their requirements and they can get the best deal on.

To that end, for corporate desktops, Intel is plenty experienced in 'checking the boxes'.

But for enthusiasts, especially gamers... they've been missing the mark, and I think they know it.
Click to expand...
Right now Intel is going to the government trough to sustain itself. And that trough is filled with TAA compliance, and security requirements, and NOT gaming performance... they will sustain themselves and get funding for more production from the US government, even if we have to invade another country for the raw materials... looking at you Iceland/Greenland. (And yea I don't want to get into the politics of it... but it is what it is... disgusting or not.)
 
Yep, even with its issues, the 14900K was the end of the road for gamers using Intel but I will once again say that the 275HK in my laptop would probably do well in a desktop and reviews for the 285 haven't been horrible since all the updates rolled out. I think the 52-core beast will be impressive as well but there's still no denying AMD's dominance.

There were reasons I jumped ship when I retired my 4930K. Gen after gen I saw power/heat increase for Intel chips that while seemingly impressive didn't really justify to me all the costs involved in using. It's been a great ride since on AMD and I'm looking forward to CCDs with more cores/threads combined with 3D Cache.
 
It's literally just the cache (and/or the resulting frametime consistency).

Intel fixes that, and they're back on top.
 
Intel has APX, AVX10.2, rumored code injection in game executables through their APO app and much higher RAM speeds than AMD.

If they STILL falter with Nova Lake, gamers everywhere will be like

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