Samsung Caught Cheating in TV Benchmarks

[Peter_Brosdahl]

I'll be looking closely for one once they start going on sale later this year. I spent fairly big on an LG 27GN950 last year, and I'm mostly happy with it, but it's definitely not OLED. I very nearly went with a 48" C1 instead of the 27GN950, but 48" was going to require a lot of rearranging, and compromising with the wife, to make it fit.

and on the flipside, hey, it's still a smart tv. I spent some time setting up my various streaming services on it last week and actually enjoyed just sitting watching things on it. I have to backtrack on my stance regarding its speakers. That soundbar I mentioned before definitely has more presence/oomph! but the quality of the built-in speakers is still quite nice and has a great dimensional feel to them. I find it hilarious being able to set windows sound to Atmos/full range and enjoy that in the games that support it. The only downside is that if I have leave it set on Atmos Windows doesn't seem to handle non-Atmos audio properly and sends digital noise but if I switch it back to stereo it's all good.

 

[Peter_Brosdahl]

Cables came and so far so go. Great deal for $39.00 - 2x 15ft HDMI 2.1 48Gbps

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09HX98THH/?tag=thefpsreview-20

 

[Brian_B]

and on the flipside, hey, it's still a smart tv.

When I got my C6, it had all the latest apps and stuff, and yeah, it is awesome just being able to use that Wii Remote to do everything with (the best TV remote I've seen).

But over the years, as the streaming services changed, not everything made it to my TV. For example: I can't get HBO Max native on it; I used to be able to get it through Prime, so it didn't matter too much. But that went the way it did, and it isn't the only thing on there that I can't get native either. Now I use an Apple TV for most everything, and I find it tends to deliver a better picture/sound than the built-in apps did (although it's a close thing). Netflix and Prime and a few other things work on there just fine, but it's just easier to keep a common interface to everything "smart".

I am conflicted though - the screen on my TV is still nice, but the software support is definitely starting to wane and I'm sure the build-in processor can only handle so much for that. A screen that's just a screen it doesn't matter - you'd always need an external box... and you'd like to think it would save you a few bucks (though I know that wouldn't be the case, it's likely to be the exact opposite, they'd make you pay more as they would lose out on ad revenue).

But

Those built in apps are convenient while they last, LG's version of PalmOS/WebOS isn't horrible, and even if/when they do fall out of support, you still have the screen to be a screen; you haven't lost anything with their presence.

 

[Riccochet]

I never cared for the built in smart apps. At least on my Samsung's. They always felt clunky, and after a couple years really started showing their age. It's much easier and faster to use a streaming box. Roku or FireTV always seem to work.

 

[Peter_Brosdahl]

I can't get HBO Max native on it

You might have to search for it. I had the same problem for about 1-2 years and then I'd forgotten that at some point last year Tsing had posted about it coming back. About 2 months ago I went and checked but it didn't immediately show up in the lists but then when I searched for it I was able to find it and re-install it. I know what you mean though. I've gone through the same with every 'smart' device/tv I've owned. They all have a limited amount of support and each one has its issues from time to time. I could easily write a book on what I've seen in the last 5-6 years.

 

[Peter_Brosdahl]

I never cared for the built in smart apps. At least on my Samsung's. They always felt clunky, and after a couple years really started showing their age. It's much easier and faster to use a streaming box. Roku or FireTV always seem to work.

Yeah, it's funny how the TV interfaces can feel clunky while the sticks usually seem to have a better GUI. When it comes to TVs I've had multiple gens of HiSense, LG, and the Sony Z9D. There's also a Shield, and in the past, we had a Roku and Firestick. Sooner or later though going back to an external device is the only solution when the built-in apps start to lose support and you want to keep the T.V. running.

 

[Riccochet]

Yeah, it's funny how the TV interfaces can feel clunky while the sticks usually seem to have a better GUI. When it comes to TVs I've had multiple gens of HiSense, LG, and the Sony Z9D. There's also a Shield, and in the past, we had a Roku and Firestick. Sooner or later though going back to an external device is the only solution when the built-in apps start to lose support and you want to keep the T.V. running.

It's crazy to me that my old Roku 3 still works, all the apps works and are up to date, and works better than the smart TV apps on my 2017 Samsung. Some of the apps on my TV like Plex don't work anymore. I think I bought that Roku 3 in 2013.

 

[Peter_Brosdahl]

It's crazy to me that my old Roku 3 still works, all the apps works and are up to date, and works better than the smart TV apps on my 2017 Samsung. Some of the apps on my TV like Plex don't work anymore. I think I bought that Roku 3 in 2013.

Most of my old ones work as well but I have such a complicated setup that there's always some feature I can't use. The Shield has been the best so far though. It's just such a PIA to get 4K DV/DA working with various apps/devices. Never fails there's always an app that wants to give some grief. The worst is Paramount+. Throw some sticks on the ground, get a sacrifice primed, and plan for a full moon if you want that thing to work with all its bells and whistles.

My only complaint about the Shield is that it doesn't have a 2nd HDMI to send audio to a receiver. Right now I have it directly connected to the LG C9 for P+ so we can watch things in 4K DV but it won't pass the Atmos through the TVs ARC which really sucks since the PC had no problem doing it. I'd connect it to the received but it's an older model that doesn't support DV and right now I haven't found any that I thing are worth replacing it with. It's an Onkyo TX646.

 

[Riccochet]

Most of my old ones work as well but I have such a complicated setup that there's always some feature I can't use. The Shield has been the best so far though. It's just such a PIA to get 4K DV/DA working with various apps/devices. Never fails there's always an app that wants to give some grief. The worst is Paramount+. Throw some sticks on the ground, get a sacrifice primed, and plan for a full moon if you want that thing to work with all its bells and whistles.

My only complaint about the Shield is that it doesn't have a 2nd HDMI to send audio to a receiver. Right now I have it directly connected to the LG C9 for P+ so we can watch things in 4K DV but it won't pass the Atmos through the TVs ARC which really sucks since the PC had no problem doing it. I'd connect it to the received but it's an older model that doesn't support DV and right now I haven't found any that I thing are worth replacing it with. It's an Onkyo TX646.

I'm in dire need of a new receiver. My Onkyo HT-R560 is quite old.

 

[Peter_Brosdahl]

I'm in dire need of a new receiver. My Onkyo HT-R560 is quite old.

What really sucks is it looks like Onkyo America changed hands in the last couple of years, or some other part of the company did, and it's become difficult to find receivers of similar quality to the 5xx,6xx,6xx series. I spent a lot of time during the holidays and was really surprised there were only 1 or 2 gens after and then nothing. At the time I did find one model that might work but it was sold out everywhere so I was really bummed. For me, they have the perfect feature set and I love the 36-bit/384 KHz upscale DAC. It seriously makes Pandora sound great. I looked at a lot of other notable brands but none had exactly what I was looking for. The other thing I noticed is that, so far, none are updating their USB ports and I usually keep a drive with all my hi-res audio plugged in there. It wouldn't be an issue but they're using 2.0 plugs and the voltages don't support some of the newer-larger SSDs or platters. I've got an old 1 TB Seagate that's hanging in there that's 3.0/backward compatible. I've tested other newer drives that it couldn't power up and had to return and I don't want to have to resort to using an external drive with its own power. Hopefully, I'll have the new monitor paid off by the next round of holidays and that'll be the next project.

 

[Riccochet]

What really sucks is it looks like Onkyo America changed hands in the last couple of years, or some other part of the company did, and it's become difficult to find receivers of similar quality to the 5xx,6xx,6xx series. I spent a lot of time during the holidays and was really surprised there were only 1 or 2 gens after and then nothing. At the time I did find one model that might work but it was sold out everywhere so I was really bummed. For me, they have the perfect feature set and I love the 36-bit/384 KHz upscale DAC. It seriously makes Pandora sound great. I looked at a lot of other notable brands but none had exactly what I was looking for. The other thing I noticed is that, so far, none are updating their USB ports and I usually keep a drive with all my hi-res audio plugged in there. It wouldn't be an issue but they're using 2.0 plugs and the voltages don't support some of the newer-larger SSDs or platters. I've got an old 1 TB Seagate that's hanging in there that's 3.0/backward compatible. I've tested other newer drives that it couldn't power up and had to return and I don't want to have to resort to using an external drive with its own power. Hopefully, I'll have the new monitor paid off by the next round of holidays and that'll be the next project.

Since I don't buy receivers often I'm most likely going Marantz SR5015.

 

[Brian_B]

There are really only a handful of folks that make most of the HT audio gear.

For instance: Marantz, Denon, Classe, Polk, B&W, Heos, Definitive Technology, and Boston Acoustics are all owned by the same LLC holding company. JBL, B&O, Inifinity, Crown, Martin, Harmon Kardon, and many others are all owned by Samsung.

I have had decent luck with Yamaha, I got a A2A last year (scratch & dent from Crutchfield) - for the most part it's awesome sounding, although when it's using Surround sometimes the dialog can come out weak and I haven't found the right combination of settings to really adjust for it -- it could be my center channel, but I don't think so, as my previous Yamaha did fairly well with it (the older Yamaha also didn't have Atmos or the more recent surround modes though). It does seem to check all the correct boxes though, and I've had no issues with it. Being a couple of years older it does have that issue with 4K VRR pass through, but I don't have VRR screen, and Yamaha will supposedly fix it when they have a fix.

But I've heard high praise for Marantz/Denon and JBL units as well, at least for the price range that excludes crazy money.

 

[Riccochet]

There are really only a handful of folks that make most of the HT audio gear.

For instance: Marantz, Denon, Classe, Polk, B&W, Heos, Definitive Technology, and Boston Acoustics are all owned by the same LLC holding company. JBL, B&O, Inifinity, Crown, Martin, Harmon Kardon, and many others are all owned by Samsung.

I have had decent luck with Yamaha, I got a A2A last year (scratch & dent from Crutchfield) - for the most part it's awesome sounding, although when it's using Surround sometimes the dialog can come out weak and I haven't found the right combination of settings to really adjust for it -- it could be my center channel, but I don't think so, as my previous Yamaha did fairly well with it (the older Yamaha also didn't have Atmos or the more recent surround modes though). It does seem to check all the correct boxes though, and I've had no issues with it. Being a couple of years older it does have that issue with 4K VRR pass through, but I don't have VRR screen, and Yamaha will supposedly fix it when they have a fix.

But I've heard high praise for Marantz/Denon and JBL units as well, at least for the price range that excludes crazy money.

I was eyeing up the A2A on Accessories4Less. It was on my short list as well.

 

[Peter_Brosdahl]

Yeah, I'll have to get back to looking around the holidays. Here's my checklist:

1. 2x HDMI 2.1 outputs (one for tv and the other for 4K projector)
2. Dolby Vision support
3. Full eArc support
4. USB port, preferably 3.0
5. Streaming apps, honesty Onkyo has rocked at this with their selection. Pandora rocks and we occasionally use TuneIn for actual radio stations.
6. 7.1 speaker setup
7. VRR support for G-Sync that can pass through eArc at 4K/120 Hz/HDR. This was another issue I found out about. I don't know how true it is but evidently, most current receivers cap the eArc at 40 Gbs because of overhead so you're not getting the full 48 Gbps which causes issues for 120 Hz, 10-12 bit/4K gaming. The devil's in the details for this one folks. You really have to check the fine print because they don't always list the limitations in an easy fashion.

I found a lot of receivers that checked most of those boxes but none that checked all.

 

[LazyGamer]

Here's what I'm seeing as 'good enough' for the near future:

Onkyo TX-RZ50

9.2-channel home theater receiver with Dolby Atmos®, Wi-Fi®, Bluetooth®, Apple AirPlay® 2, and Amazon Alexa compatibility

www.crutchfield.com

VRR support for G-Sync that can pass through eArc at 4K/120 Hz/HDR. This was another issue I found out about. I don't know how true it is but evidently, most current receivers cap the eArc at 40 Gbs because of overhead so you're not getting the full 48 Gbps which causes issues for 120 Hz, 10-12 bit/4K gaming. The devil's in the details for this one folks. You really have to check the fine print because they don't always list the limitations in an easy fashion.

I'm on the fence with this one - generally, 'eARC' is so that you can hook an HDMI output from something to the TV, and then have the audio passed on to the receiver?

Also feeling some deja vu here, as I feel like I've misunderstood usecases here before, so open to correction

 

[Peter_Brosdahl]

Here's what I'm seeing as 'good enough' for the near future:

http://[URL]https://www.crutchfield.com/p_580TXRZ50/Onkyo-TX-RZ50.html?tp=179

[/URL]


I'm on the fence with this one - generally, 'eARC' is so that you can hook an HDMI output from something to the TV, and then have the audio passed on to the receiver?

Also feeling some deja vu here, as I feel like I've misunderstood usecases here before, so open to correction

No worries.

eArc has two functions with no particular priority.

• The TV connects to the receiver HDMI port that's designated for eArc and it will allow the tv to send its audio, including things that are plugged into it or Streaming (there's a catch here as well since various apps may limit types of streams due to app versions/licensing, etc) to the receiver. The catch here is that t.v.s have varying levels of support in regards to the number of channels and type of stream(DTS/Dolby, etc) they will send. Apps will usually fall back to the TV specs but sometimes decide per the app's spec i.e. I've seen TVs that support Atmos have apps that won't send it because of something with the app.
• In turn anything that is plugged directly into the receiver can send video+audio (is desired for some reason) back through the same HDMI port back to the TV. If you have a disc player or shield this is the most preferable means. Put it all on the receiver and most things will give you maximum audio options but in terms of video, you're limited to what the receiver can send to the TV. The only other downside for gamers can be latency but most modern high-end receivers have much lower latency than they used to.

Yeah, those 9.2's are too pricey for me. The price jumps a bit when going from 7.1 to 9.2. I paid around $600-$700 for the TX 646 (7.1) I've got and was hoping to not break $1K with the next.

 

[Grimlakin]

I know this will scream antipathy for many in this discussion. But no joke check out the good soundbars with dolby Atmos support. I think you'll be shocked how good they are.

 

[Zarathustra]

No worries.

eArc has two functions with no particular priority.

• The TV connects to the receiver HDMI port that's designated for eArc and it will allow the tv to send its audio, including things that are plugged into it or Streaming (there's a catch here as well since various apps may limit types of streams due to app versions/licensing, etc) to the receiver. The catch here is that t.v.s have varying levels of support in regards to the number of channels and type of stream(DTS/Dolby, etc) they will send. Apps will usually fall back to the TV specs but sometimes decide per the app's spec i.e. I've seen TVs that support Atmos have apps that won't send it because of something with the app.
• In turn anything that is plugged directly into the receiver can send video+audio (is desired for some reason) back through the same HDMI port back to the TV. If you have a disc player or shield this is the most preferable means. Put it all on the receiver and most things will give you maximum audio options but in terms of video, you're limited to what the receiver can send to the TV. The only other downside for gamers can be latency but most modern high-end receivers have much lower latency than they used to.

Yeah, those 9.2's are too pricey for me. The price jumps a bit when going from 7.1 to 9.2. I paid around $600-$700 for the TX 646 (7.1) I've got and was hoping to not break $1K with the next.

I don't have any of these streaming sticks or anything like that, but why not plug them into the back of the receiver and have a single traditional one way cable from thee ceiver to the TV instead?

I don't know what receiver you have, but my Denon AVR-x3300w has like 7 HDMI inputs, which out to be enough for all but the most extreme applications.

 

[Riccochet]

I know this will scream antipathy for many in this discussion. But no joke check out the good soundbars with dolby Atmos support. I think you'll be shocked how good they are.

I would love to have atmos is any form, but it's really hard to do with 20' ceilings in my living room. Actually, really impossible, without a lot of planning and expensive equipment. I can't have up firing atmos speakers as the delay to bounce sound will be too great, and most receivers can't compensate for that kind of delay. And down firing speakers in the ceiling is virtually impossible.

 

[Peter_Brosdahl]

I don't have any of these streaming sticks or anything like that, but why not plug them into the back of the receiver and have a single traditional one way cable from thee ceiver to the TV instead?

I don't know what receiver you have, but my Denon AVR-x3300w has like 7 HDMI inputs, which out to be enough for all but the most extreme applications.

Has to do with Dolby Vision and VRR(for PC but who knows if I'll ever use the C9 again for that now that I have the C2), but for 4K discs and Streaming the receiver I have (Onkyo TX-NR646) only supports up to HDR10/60 Hz and Dolby Vision really makes the C9 come alive. For now, I've got everything plugged into it and using eArc to send the audio over to the receiver. However, some apps will not send Atmos that way even though the TV, and receiver both support it. Ironically enough I can plug either the PC and Disc player into the TV and both of them will push Atmos through eArc with no problem. I still have the player and the Shield plugged into it but the Shield doesn't always send Atmos over, it's an app thing.

Ideally, though, you are correct that the best option is to plug everything into the receiver. That's what I was saying before but for now, I am limited to the age of what I have and an odd set of circumstances that prevented Onkyo from continuing those very, very, successful product lines. They made two more gens that I know of, then switched to a different naming schema, and then got sold. After that, I have seen any real continuations of the product lines I like. I blame soundbars.

I'm in no rush but I'm sure everyone knows what it's like to not have their systems running at full optimization. Thankfully the gaming rig is now.